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  • Raventiger
  • Member Since Apr 29th, 2008

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Jane McGonigal on why gamers will change the world, page 2 {WoW}

Jan 26th 2011 6:16PM What an amazing lady. I've watched the first two videos, and I have to confess, the first few moments of the first video I thought she was crazy. But the more I listened, read, and watched, the more she made sense. Another thing that impresses me is that she practices what she preaches as demonstrated by the second video. I'm really looking forward to reading next week's article.

What happened to TourGuide? Part 2 {WoW}

Mar 16th 2010 12:12AM "Tekkub Mar 15th 2010 8:44PM

And I said I wasn't really pissed now didn't I? I'm just confused as to how the decision to push out that version came to be, when all the talk I had seen was about their own addon, stopping using TG... and when you consider that dugi did the exact same thing, which was the catalyst to this whole situation."

Well now you know that Tourguide is being removed as requested, so that should clear up that confusion for you. However, I feel I should address a point you raised. I should make it clear that I don't speak on behalf of wow-pro, Jiyambi and Jame do, and you should take Jiyambi posts as wow-pro's official position.

Here's the issue I wish to contest you on, you said:

"I'm just confused as to how the decision to push out that version came to be, ... and when you consider that dugi did the exact same thing, which was the catalyst to this whole situation."

There's a big difference between what Dugi did and what wow-pro did. Dugi never spoke to you about modifying Tourguide, nor did he receive your permission to do so before hand. The google code transcript, I posted shows that wow-pro did speak to you, and you told them to "In short, you f**k with it, find a new name for it. Or you could always just fork on github and submit your changes. "

All this is moot now that wow-pro is complying with Zygor's demands. However, I feel that both you and Zygor have misrepresented what wow-pro have done with tourguide in the comments you have made to this article.

Personally, Tekkub, as a long time user of your mods, and someone who has read your posts on wowinterface and trusted what you had to say, I have to say that I used to have a great deal of respect for you. You've lost that respect now, and I'm sure I'm not the only one of your users who now feels that way. Regardless, I've said what I wish to say on this matter, and I think it best if I let this lie now.

Regards,

Raven

What happened to TourGuide? Part 2 {WoW}

Mar 15th 2010 8:37PM Tekkub with all due respect the page linked (google code) maybe outdate because of your move to github, but the fact remains, you were asked for permission to modify the program if required and you gave it.

What happened to TourGuide? Part 2 {WoW}

Mar 15th 2010 7:47PM "The WoW-Pro thing.. I'm honestly not sure what to say. I'd been watching their big comment thread on the whole thing after the announcement was made, and it really sounded like they were going to switch to their own internal guide addon. The guys over there seemed to be saying that while they might not agree with what happened, they understood my position. It sounded like they were going to make their own addon, then this rebranded version of TG popped up. It seems odd that they essentially did what dugi did. I'm not exactly pissed at them for doing it... just confused."

Interestingly enough after the discussion they had with you here http://www.wowwiki.com/User_talk:Tekkub#Jame.27s_Leveling_Guide_into_Tour_Guide so are they! Lets look at that discussion shall we?

"Jame's Leveling Guide into Tour Guide

Hi Tekkub! I used to be pretty active with WoWWiki but have since been helping Jame (of Jame's leveling guides) out with his website. We are trying to put his guides into addon format. I was told by someone that you are the developer for Tourguide. We are interested in using it for his guides, but we wanted to make sure that would be okay and also that we could change things within it if we needed to, as long as we gave originally credit for it's development to you.

I'll check back here, just let me know what's up when you get the time :) --Jiyambi t || c 22:28, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

You don't need to change anything. Make your own addon with your guides in it and have it require TG. Look at the guides included with the addon, they can be pulled out into standalone addons. TeжubԎ Ҩ Ѡ 22:32, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

That's what we have done thus far. However I think Jame's concern in using TourGuide is that if for some reason we wanted to change something in it's interface, we would have to get it okayed by you, or we might not be able to change something if we wanted to. We have another user developing a custom addon not dependant on TourGuide to solve that problem, but some of us prefer the TourGuide version. Basically, if we did for some unknown reason want to change something within TourGuide only for use with our guide, would that be acceptable as long as we noted that you were the original author? --Jiyambi t || c 22:55, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

http://code.google.com/p/tekkub-wow/ In short, you f(edit)k with it, find a new name for it. Or you could always just fork on github and submit your changes. No guarantee I'll accept them though, I feel TG's core is basically done, nothing needs to be added to it. TeжubԎ Ҩ Ѡ 22:59, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Sounds fair enough. I really don't think we'll need to change anything (it works great!), just covering for the eventuality since putting all of Jame's guides into TourGuide form may take some time and effort. Thanks very much for the info, and also for making so many great addons! --Jiyambi t || c 23:16, 7 January 2009 (UTC) "

In short you were asked if they they could make changes if necessary and you told them that they could always fork the program (as per githubs license) or to submit changes to you. They made a minor change and renamed it as per your suggestion.




What happened to TourGuide? Part 2 {WoW}

Mar 15th 2010 7:40PM The WoW-Pro thing.. I'm honestly not sure what to say. I'd been watching their big comment thread on the whole thing after the announcement was made, and it really sounded like they were going to switch to their own internal guide addon. The guys over there seemed to be saying that while they might not agree with what happened, they understood my position. It sounded like they were going to make their own addon, then this rebranded version of TG popped up. It seems odd that they essentially did what dugi did. I'm not exactly pissed at them for doing it... just confused.

What happened to TourGuide? Part 2 {WoW}

Mar 15th 2010 8:48AM Thank you sisibley, I was unaware of that piece of information. For those interested see http://help.github.com/terms/, I'll quote the relevant section here;

"F. Copyright and Content Ownership

1. We claim no intellectual property rights over the material you provide to the Service. Your profile and materials uploaded remain yours. However, by setting your pages to be viewed publicly, you agree to allow others to view your Content. By setting your repositories to be viewed publicly, you agree to allow others to view and fork your repositories."

That puts a whole new spin on things


What happened to TourGuide? Part 2 {WoW}

Mar 15th 2010 7:12AM 'I guess it's time for me to reply eh? Here goes...

"I also feel that a lot of the drama over this issue could have been completely avoided if Tekkub had communicated with his community of users before Tourguide was taken offline."

The first rule of signed and notarized legal contract is 'You don't talke about signed and notarized legal contract.' As soon as I had the green light, I talked about the whole situation... at length. Any contract like this has a confidentiality clause.'

Just to clarify what I meant by better communication. I understand you couldn't speak about the contract until you were given the green light, but personally after you were given the green light I feel you could have communicated things a whole lot better.

Granted you made two statements explaining what you did. But those statements are not what I call communicating well. You have been a active member of Wowinterface.com. You could have very easily have created a thread there explaining things to the community and engaging with your users in dialogue. Instead you left a lot of very frustrated people who had no idea what was happening. I know, because I directed some of them to your website for your official statement.

Again, I understand what you did and why you did it, the add-on is yours and you can do with it what you like. That's not the issue, the issue is the way both Zygor and yourself communicated with the community. That in my own personal opinion, was handled poorly, and directly contributed to the resentment, hostility and drama.

Still, what's done is done. You have your side of the story, Zygor has his side, Dugi has his side, and WoW-Pro has theirs. The only people whom I personally believe and trust in this is WOW-Pro, I've read the threads. The rest, well as I've said before, I don't know and don't really care who is right and who is wrong, that's for wiser people than me to sort out.

Regards,

Raven

What happened to TourGuide? Part 2 {WoW}

Mar 15th 2010 5:19AM Tekkub,

Thank you for clarifying. Again I have no problem with you selling something that is legally yours. I stand by my statement that this could have been handled a whole lot better. Unfortunately, deserved or not, you now have the ire of a large amount of people due to this deal.


As for WOW-pro, they've received Zygor's email and they are removing their addon. Eventually they will release their own addon without Tourguide so situations like these will be avoided in the future.

PS. Time will tell if Zygor releases Tourguide or not for free again - I sincerely hope he does.

Regards,

Raven.

What happened to TourGuide? Part 2 {WoW}

Mar 15th 2010 3:12AM Mr Cook,

You may want to check your facts before you go making public statements about people being thieves. I'm referring in particular to WOW-pro; as you can see here http://www.wow-pro.com/node/2850#comment-29778 , it is the understanding of WOW-Pro that they do have permission from Tekkub to do what they have done with Tourguide.

As for Dugi, he claims that rather than theft, a simple misunderstanding due to miscommunication took place see http://www.ultimatewowguide.com/blog/2010/02/re-tekkub-response-clearing-the-air/ . Interestingly enough he also claims to have the emails of the dialogue between himself and Tekkub. In the issue of fairness WOW.com may want to interview Dugi to find out exactly what is in those emails.

I look forward to the time when you once again make Tourguide available to the general public.

Regards,

Raven

What happened to TourGuide? Part 2 {WoW}

Mar 13th 2010 10:29PM I might add that personally, I don't know & care who is in the right or wrong here. Tekkub most definately has the right to sell anything of his to whoever he likes. Tekkub and Dugi have both made public comments as have Zygor, the right or wrongness of these comments is for people smarter then me to decide. I just feel that every party involved should have been given the oppotunity to present their side of the story.

I also feel that a lot of the drama over this issue could have been completely avoided if Tekkub had communicated with his community of users before Tourguide was taken offline.