Sep 17th 2008 12:24PM WAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHH!!!
The fate of the Tenacity pet:
The tenacity pet cannot serve as a tank as, understandably so, it cannot achieve the defensive tanking stats conventional tanks can achieve.
The Tenacity pet will be favored by MM and SV hunters alike in grinding/leveling. There is the offchance that some instances or raids may require a Tenacity pet for a specific OT role on a certain fight or pull, but that is situational. The BM pet can surely use the Tenacity pet to grind as well (moar threat = less fd, concussive shot, disengage, wing clip = more efficient grinding) and also for soloing those silly group quests of which 41/20 hunters could already solo. Endurance training, thick hide, catlike reflexes will continue to be unused except for those pvp hunters. The tankapet will hardly make it to a raiding environment except for above stated situational pulls and even then it will result in a loss of dps and unless we're given an ability to summon pets (ok if it doesn't happen, AWESOME if it does), then the tenacity pet will never make it to raiding.
Pardon my QQ, I was just so excited to write the Uber Tankapet Strategy guide and it stopped when I found the tankapet couldn't stack defense (as it should be for class balance issues, tank=feral druid is a no-no).
Oh, and btw, with Spirit Bond, a hunter can achieve 50% (!!!!) bonus healing.
Sep 4th 2008 6:39PM The idea of taking aspects off GCD is very appealing. I think I need to change my underwear just thinking about it.
Aug 13th 2008 7:32PM Give me a B (B!)
Give me an L (L!)
Give me an I (I!)
Give me an N (N!)
Give me a K (K!)
What does that spell?
(The solution to all hunter pvp problems!)
Jun 5th 2008 6:16PM I'm a hunter. I don't QQ over this. All classes and specs are good at something. Hunters breeze through leveling and questing and in raids can put out great dps without being super geared. We have a lot at our disposal for pvp, but mainly for BG's (tracking, ranged dmg, aspects, traps, and more).
If we are underrepresented in high end arena, it doesn't mean our pvp is broken (hunters do VERY well in BG's), it just means we aren't great in arena. And you know what? That's OK!! We can't expect to get everything we want. someone asked for us to wear plate. Next we'll ask for a HoT, three concurrent pets, and a res.
Hunters are great for other things. If your goal is arena, don't play a hunter, OR pioneer a unique style that works (there are hunters out there who do very well).
Jun 4th 2008 5:15PM Sure, DotA can be just attack and defend, but I can assure you that there are reasons that game balance, map balance, and item balance is an issue in DotA, WoW and other level based pvp games. It's that good players will find strategies to exploit the system to give them an edge. So simply saying that it's easy to create a DotA style map and not put thought into the above mentioned will most certainly yield a bad gaming experience.
In any good game, you have to address the possible strategies that players will come up with, or the game will just fail.
btw, dota is not just picking a path and going with it, the fact is people move around the lanes a lot and that is what keeps you on your toes. It's only in the early game where you see people staying in one lane. The fact that it is a team game also negates the statement that it is just attack and defend. It can be thought of that way if it were a single player game, but it's not. There's three lanes and five players. I mean, if you're not in a solo lane, you're in a double lane trying to manage exp and gold distribution and trying to find opportunity to kill the opposing person in your lane (or even killing someone in another lane for that matter). Considering all the variables of teamwork, it's about timing, sound strategy, and adjustment.
And anyway, I'm not opposed to having a new BG, or creating something different. I'm just saying that trying to mimic DotA with the WoW mechanics is going to be much more difficult than people think it is, and instead of trying to recreate DotA I would suggest trying to create something different altogether.
There's a reason DotA is so popular and fun. It's unique, it's deep in terms of strategy and skill level, it requires communication and teamwork, and it's highly competitive. Since everyone starts at level 1 at the beginning of every game, DotA players don't strive to progress in items and levels, they strive to gain in ability and skill. WoW BG's should focus on those characteristics rather than recreating the actual mechanics of an entirely different game.
Sorry I'm so verbose, but that's how I roll. :)
Jun 4th 2008 3:46PM Agreed, DotA players are extreme jerks. They're famous for it. Calling people Noob constantly, pointing out failures, and in-fighting is a part of the culture.
Jun 4th 2008 3:40PM I would LOVE to see a DotA style BG in WoW.
But I just don't see how it can work. There are a few things that just won't make it feel like DotA at all and you briefly mentioned them.
DotA players start at level 1 and go to 25 and gold and exp is earned and denied through "last hitting and denying." In effect, the game itself goes through a early, mid, and late game experience all within itself.
This means that gaining level and gold is essential to the game. Since WoW players can't usually level through BG's (in any reasonable amount of time), Blizz would have to implement an entirely different system of gaining power or stats through the BG and would have to scale it to how the player was doing in the BG. If all players gained power at the same rate, it's not DotA. Strategies revolve around early, mid or late game dominance: getting early kills to halt the enemy from getting gold or exp, or bunkering up to create one unstoppable late game force. It's not DotA if you don't get the progression from early to late.
Last Hitting and denying is a HUGE part of the game. It is what separates the good from the inexperienced. In DotA you don't get the gold for the kill unless you get the killing blow on the NPC (or in DotA they call them creeps). This also includes getting the killing blow on the hero or enemy player as well. In WoW you merely have to tag a mob or a player to get credit. So it takes that element of skill out of it.
You also mentioned that the map IS the game. To elaborate, there are two specific items that are used widely in ALL high level games. Wards and Town Portals. Wards are placed throughout the map for reconnaissance and is essential to having good teamwork and preparing for skirmishes. Town Portals give mobility to the player to "TP" to any building that your faction defends. The tp can certainly be implemented but wards seem too far fetched given the mechanics of WoW and some players already have similar abilities like the hunter's Eagle eye and the warlock eye thingie.
So unless blizz can address progressing through the BG to implement an early to late game feel and mobility and recon on the map, it will never be dota, shouldn't be related to dota, and shouldn't be thought of as DotA for WoW.