Oct 18th 2010 4:54PM I used to think a lot of our problems would be cured with Aspect of the Fox, until I did some more PvP and reading.
Imagine you're in an arena match. You use Aspect of the Fox so you can regen on the run. You empty 4 shots into an exposed player who promptly hides behind a pillar.
Now you have zero Focus, and no one to shoot at to generate more focus with Steady (which you'd have to be out in the open and stationary for 6-7 seconds to even get a useable pool of Focus back anyway) ... so you're left standing still for 14 seconds doing absolutely nothing.
With current gear our focus regens at 7 per second. So that's about 14 seconds for a full bar assuming you do nothing for all that time.
But wait! If you get hit while in Aspect of the Fox, you get a whopping 2 focus back! So if you stand in the open and absorb 11 direct hits, you'll have enough to fire ONE Arcane shot back. You'll also be dead.
BGs are only playable now because of the chaos and if you're able to maintain any damage rotation it's because you're being ignored. And right now, we're being ignored because we do next to no damage with the resil buff.
Of course, this is all moot because we're "balanced for 85."
I'd love to see how Blizzard plans to make Hunters even remotely competitive in Arena under the current focus system. Because even in Beta at 85 the regen is just as pathetic.
Hunters are, right now, what Rogues used to be in Vanilla. Our focus issues are the same rogues had with energy back then. Now every Rogue has a different ability to regen energy that's different for each spec ... Hunters have ... Steady Shot.
I'm honestly astonished by how half-baked the Hunter changes are that have been pushed to Live. We can deal with the problems in PvE but for PvP there's an astonishing amount of work to be done with the Class.
I think this is why Hunters have had zero blue posts in the past week. Fixing Warrior coefficients is a simple tweak. Looking at the beta experience hunters aren't even close to being ready for 85 and will probably see more tweaks and updates than any other class in Cata.
I just hope it doesn't take them as long to fix us as it took them to fix my poor Shammy.
Oct 18th 2010 3:39PM The only reason people are switching to Arcane spam and ignoring MM's signature shots is because in a busy raid environment it makes our DPS is significantly higher along with our survivability. It's about what you can effectively pull off while on the run and while managing everything else we're expected to in a raid encounter.
The way we MM hunters are currently intended to work is to maintain both the Improved Steady Shot buff in addition to maintaining Serpent Sting on our target by refreshing Chimera.
To maintain ISS we need to stand still for around 3 seconds to fire, which also regens our Focus. This buff only lasts 8 seconds so we need to be able to stand still and fire precisely two steady shots every 8 seconds. This buff can be cancelled by extra shots creeping into the order, and there's a bug I've seen where even my Wild Quiver procs will screw up ISS.
On top of this, we are asked to maintain Serpent, so we need to fire Chimera at a massive focus cost of 44 so it must be planned ahead. Serpent only lasts 15 seconds. And Chimera has a 10 second cooldown, plus costs almost half your focus bar. So you have, with lag, about 4 seconds to weave Chimera into your rotation as well.
All other times we're shooting Arcane and Steady in the gaps, measured precisely with an eye on the focus bar.
This is a very complex rotation. The new Command Queuing System which can't be disabled (but should!) means it's very very easy to accidentally fire off an extra Arcane shot and bork up the entire priority rotation, at which point DPS drops off precipitously.
MM without Aspect of the Fox is very tight and unforgiving, so for those of us still pushing progression and wanting to be functional in an actual raid dropping the signature shots is more than a viable option ... it's necessary.
Besides, it's not like two months of skipping Chimera will lead to years of bad habits. We've relearned our rotations in under a week and have found ways to approximate the damage we were doing before. Once Cata hits, or if they ever fix the damage per focus cost of our signature shots, we'll adapt just as quickly.
But it's simply asking too much to effectively maintain this tight rotation while also throwing misdirects, keeping some free focus for tranq shots, standing out of the fire, managing our pets, AND working with CC at 85.
Arcane spam is a short-term bad habit that pales in comparison to hunters going tunnel-vision on their focus bars and obsessively micromanaging their tight rotations in order to do adequate-to-passable damage, while ignoring their surroundings.
There is no doubt a lot of people like these changes, and I'm one of them ... I just wish they had been balanced better. We need a longer duration on Serpent Sting to start, and to make Chimera nature damage again.
Oct 15th 2010 1:00PM Nope, that wasn't me. When I did Saurfang heroic on Wed I was still trying to figure out a way to make my two signature shots work into the rotation.
I dropped them for Blood and Plague and saw improvement there.
The Dummy is a very poor way to plan out a priority list, as it's missing both shot rotations and movement.
Without Fox, the rotation is too tight. With it, it's still going to be tight.
Overall, my DPS has still dropped. Where I used to pull 14-15k on Sindragosa Heroic I'm now pulling 12-13k on Sindragosa Heroic. I'm sure I can figure it out, it's just the first week of raiding with this awful patch, but I'm not certain I want to.
Oct 15th 2010 12:21PM Pretty much. Without Aspect of the Fox, the listed MM rotation is way too complex and unforgiving.
Going to summarize a few of my longer posts on EJ about this:
Though on Dummies, the listed MM Spec/Rotation IS the maximum possible by a couple hundred DPS, in the heat of a raid, it's FAR too complex. Even with Fox it's going to be a pain to pull off. Because with the massive focus cost of Chimera, if you even fire ONE extra Arcane Shot your dps will tumble as you sit waiting for focus to regen.
If you fire TWO extra Arcanes while on the run, you have to sit spamming Steady (if you can find a save place to stand for 4 seconds) to try to catch back up.
The rotation is far too tight and leaves zero room for error.
For Blood and Frost wings in ICC 25 Heroic I decided to ditch Serpent and Chimera and simplify my rotation. I was back up to top 3 dps, beating everyone regularly but the OP mages, and on Sindragosa I was #1.
At 85 Blizzard expects us to pull off the extremely tight MM rotation of the max DPS, while also watching threat, throwing misdirects, managing our pet, tranqing enrages, interrupting shots, managing CC, ETC. Oh, and firing an Aimed whenever it's up.
That's juggling. And it's not fun. And if we mess up even ONCE in the perfect rotation our DPS falls off a cliff.
My suggestion would be to give us all a break. Halve the focus cost of Chimera to 22 to match Arcane, then double the CD and double the duration of Steady. Adjust the dps numbers to make them roughly the same as now.
Oct 15th 2010 2:32AM After playing around with MM in ICC Heroic for 2 nights, I'm really starting to understand where my problems lie.
The rotation is just too tight. Needing to weave Chimera every 10 seconds means you can't really get more than 4 Steadies and 4 Arcanes between each. And with the huge focus cost of Chimera it's nearly impossible to really pull that tight rotation off if there's any movement at all.
I'm able to beat almost everyone in my guild again simply by dropping Chimera and Serpent entirely and spamming Arcane. That seems broken to me.
What I'd like to see Blizzard tweak to help all specs is to lengthen the duration of Serpent to double its current length ... 30 seconds. It's just not fun to nanny such a short duration dot as Serpent as either BM, SV, or MM.
I'd also like to see the CD on Chimera lengthened to 25 seconds. Maybe 20 if glyphed. And to compensate, I'd like to see the focus cost halved to match Arcane's cost.
Oct 15th 2010 1:13AM Frostheim, you might want to check your MM shot priority. I'm doing much higher DPS in Heroic ICC 25 by simply ignoring Serpent Sting and Chimera Shot entirely.
I'm sure it'll be a different story at 85, but the focus cost of Chimera is much too high. Opening with SS + Chimera is 59 focus. That's insane.
My top MM spec is yours as listed, but taking the point out of Chimera and dropping it into the 3rd point of One With Nature.
Priority is Mark > Aimed (when Proc) > Arcane > Steady.
Much much much higher dps in ICC 25 heroic at 277 gear. Only getting beaten by mages.
Oct 14th 2010 11:19PM naPS is absolutely correct. And everyone who thinks this is mindless QQ needs to read the article where Frostheim clearly states that hunter dps has dropped.
If you were ArPen capped, like my hunter was last week, you are doing less dps this week. It's the same thing that happened to Fury Warriors who were ArPen capped. If you weren't pushing heroic raid progression, you are either doing the same dps or slightly more.
Some of us are still raiding and trying to down RoS 25 in Heroic. And our toons doing a few K less DPS than we were last week stings.
Sep 21st 2010 4:22PM I hope along with this new feature they also update the Mobile Armory App itself.
As it is right now, it doesn't support the iPhone 4 retina display so it looks pixellated, and it also doesn't support the iOS 4.x multitasking.
Can't see them releasing a paid chat service and not also update the app to run in the background and send instant notifications while chatting.
Sep 20th 2010 11:14PM I've seen a lot of people talking about the current Camo incarnation being "situationally useful" but no one has been able to articulate a scenario where it's even marginally useful at all. Certainly nothing close to something that should be a level 85 talent.
I've seen a lot of people explain in detail how it has NO uses, and is completely useless as it stands now.
Pretty sure this is just a test and it will have SOMETHING added to it to make it viable for PVE. Even if it's just bringing back the opening shot buff, like a guaranteed crit on first strike or something.
I can't see how anyone would really use this ability to do anything other than stand around in a capital city making Predator clicking noises into their mics.
Sep 20th 2010 1:30PM I was just wondering the opposite. I'm not in the beta but I'm pretty sure the Alliance is retaking Hillsbrad. I'm hoping the quest isn't Alliance-exclusive.