Dec 22nd 2010 9:19PM BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOKS! LOVE!
Dec 10th 2010 10:11AM I like plenty of the characters, especially those from WCIII (poor Illidan, Lady Vashj, and Kael'Thas getting a bit of the shaft in BC.) For those who don't like Jaina I would say do some of the Theramore quests along with Missing Diplomat but those are gone now. Jaina definitely tries to shoulder too much responsibility. She and Thrall were the only ones to take away the idea that everyone could work together from the Battle of Hyjal. And now that Thrall has decided to leave Garrosh in charge, she is the only one working for a cause greater than the Alliance/Horde. Tyrande suffers from being a Night Elf I suppose.
But I think my favorite group of characters are the female anti-heroes/villains. Moira Bronzebeard, Sylvannas, and Magatha all evoke strong emotion. Moira was always a loose end I wanted to see tied up and with her father gone and her uncle on the council with her and her baby the heir to the throne, the story is finally unfolding. Sylvannas and the Forsaken have been made more sympathetic in the new quests. Yes there's the plague and disobeying Garrosh but Sylvannas and the Forsaken are not monstrous because they are Forsaken and that is an important point. Magtha is more complicated. I HATE that she killed/helped kill Cairne. But she was such a subversive element the entire time in vanilla that it was hard not to appreciate her deviousness. I can't wait to find her banished self and giver her a piece of my mind.
P.S. Draenei really need some more representation on Azeroth. The Blood Elves, the Gilneans, and the Bilgewater Goblins have all created outposts all over, despite having equal or less time, while the Draenei have a grand total of two (both of which were previous settlements) over that time period.
Dec 7th 2010 5:45PM I can't pass up a chance at free books!
Dec 6th 2010 7:07PM Here's hoping for a free book :D
Dec 5th 2010 9:02PM @Slim
I just did the Tirisfal and Silverpine quests (haven't done Hillsbrad yet) and I think that for the most part they actually show the Forsaken to be less evil than previously depicted. The Apothecaries are for the most part, evil (with some hint that they are still working on things that Sylvannas hasn't approved) but the large portion of the quest givers seem "human" in your interactions. They want to defend their homeland (and it is theirs) and do generally support the Horde (though the Apothecaries are an exception and Sylvannas gets pissed off by Garrosh's overly candid interaction with her).
The problem with the Forsaken is that Sylvannas is too trusting. She recruits the free-willed undead and (now) raises them and expects that they will follow her and serve loyally, a dangerous assumption when she is not the Lich King and does not have full mind control over her people (though her methods of communication in the Silverpine quests were slightly unnerving) and when some of the people she's raising were humans she was fighting against. Her actions are understandable however. Pre-Lich King, the Forsaken were sentient beings that were emotionally stunted and otherwise afflicted by their condition but at least they had a purpose, to kill the Lich King. Post-Lich King... what do they have? Some have found that serving Sylvannas (or the Horde at large or other factions like the Argent Dawn/Crusade) gives them purpose. But some, notably Sylvannas her self, are purposeless. Sylvannas knows she can't abandon her "people" but at the same time, the only thing she seems to live for is not dying, a point underlined by the end of Silverpine. The Forsaken are in a dangerous place right now because Sylvannas is drifting like Thrall was/is but Sylvannas has a less reliable base of subordinates to rely on, historically anyway.
TL;DR: The Forsaken aren't all evil but if something goes wrong with the Dark Lady... bad news for everybody.
Sep 29th 2010 5:31PM I would like to echo Mecer and Artificial's points that the Orcs did what any Roman or American did; conquered for the greater glory of the empire/people. It even included rape, murder, racism, and all sorts of nasty things. Does it justify their actions? No. But it doesn't stain their descendants with the sins of the father either, nor should repentant examples a la Saurfang be dismissed.
To address a point/inflammatory comment by Natsumi, it is not a sign of intelligence if someone recognizes/fails to recognize a demon. You'll find that the Night Elves, Humans, and Draenei/Eredar (to name but a few) are all races that failed to recognize the true intention of demons until it was far too late. Examples of each race can probably be found and when you factor in Old Gods and other evil entities, everyone, every race must be considered stupid to have fallen for a demon's/evil being's deception.
But, as we say here on Earth, the Devil's greatest trick was convincing people he doesn't exist. Not that I espouse belief in Christianity but understand the viewpoint that saying comes from; demons are all ABOUT deception. Their entire existence is predicated on the corruption and destruction of good. If they weren't good at it, then they wouldn't be such a threat.
And to address another poster's gauge of the Horde's relative intelligence, saying that the most intelligent were Blood Elves (formerly Alliance), I must take issue with that. Certainly, it is probably more likely that the Alliance races as a whole are more educated. And it may be that Blood Elves and Forsaken (and Goblins) are more likely to be educated. But education does not equal intelligence. This kind of thinking leads to racial discrimination, with real world parallels in America and the European world at large. Whole bodies of pseudo-science were dedicated to the idea that whites were inherently more intelligent. Why? Because they knew so much more than the "savages" they met on their travels around the world. But these "savages" were not unintelligent, simply uneducated. When Africans, Native Americans, other conquered peoples became educated individuals it was seen as something strange and rare, an exception that proved the rule.
In sum, simply because the Orcs, Trolls, and Tauren don't found mage cities or have bored nobility that forge rebellions or have life-spans that span millenia and filled those years with learning or were created by the Titans to be super-intelligent, doesn't mean they aren't intelligent or can't be educated.
Jul 22nd 2010 4:05PM I would like to affirm the comments that have mentioned that Shadow magic is not evil and disaffirm those that say it is. There is a difference between shadow and fel magic, between warlock/mage and priest. There cannot be shadow without light, but there can be darkness. Nothingness and voidness are the domain of the warlock, drawn from the Twisting Nether. Shadow magic is the flip side to a priest's power, its complement not its antithesis.
Necromancy is fel not shadow magic.
Warlocks use fel not shadow magic.
Shadow magic is not inherently evil as fel magic is.
Priests do not walk the same divide that warlocks do. Where warlocks actively fight corruption (and mages do as well to a lesser degree) priests only fight the perception of others (should they be followers of the Holy Light anyway).
Someone also mentioned that the Holy Light is simply interpreted by other races differently where only Humans, Dwarves, Blood and High Elves, Draenei, etc. have gotten it right. This is patently false. Until such time as there is a retcon of actual damaging proportions as opposed to the BC necessity, Elune exists as do the Loa. And as a side-note for the Draenei, the Elements are not the Light or I hope Blizzard thinks that anyway.
Jul 21st 2010 11:09PM The "Elune is a Naaru" bit is speculation. And until such time as Elune is proven not to exist (and like everything else the Draenei touch, turn-out to be yet another facet of the Light) she is a moon goddess and thus has New Moon, Waxing Crescent, Waxing Gibbous, Full Moon, Waning Gibbous, and Waning Crescent (with quarters thrown in there as well). Two full on aspects of light and dark and various in betweens. Though not spoken of, not a stretch. On the other hand, the Night Elven priesthood may be more focused on balance rather than extremes. It may not be so much about Light and Shadow (New Moon and Full Moon) but the phases in between, the balance between light and dark.
Jul 21st 2010 10:15PM I auto-corrected eclipses to ellipses... d'oh.
Jul 21st 2010 10:13PM Draenei shadow priests were guardians of the dead in Auchindoun. And the mental aspect of many of the shadow spells leads me to believe that the shadow aspect of the priest class is not necessarily that of mastering a harmful opposite but a complementary force. Shadow magic is magic of the mind, not evil. Shadow priests would, in the case of Human, Blood and High Elf, and Dwarf priests be masters of mental control and powers. Draenei have their death priests, the trolls worship darker beings, Elune is a moon goddess (chock-full of light and dark aspects): the Forsaken did not create Shadow magic or popularize it. But they are the first (that we know of) that deals first and foremost with Shadow magic, if only because it does not harm them. Which then raises the question if some Forsaken followed their Troll allies' faith, if they wouldn't be better off.
And on a Cataclysm speculation note, how will Tauren priests deal with their power's duality. They will be worshiping An'she, their Sun god and the apparent twin of Elune (though unlike Elune there doesn't seem to be an actual deity behind it) and since solar ellipses are fairly rare, I wonder how the Shadow manifests itself in their philosophy.