Mar 17th 2011 2:02PM Complaining that removing the mundane, unfun aspects that the class is bogged down with constitutes "dumbing down" the game is, well, kinda dumb. Seriously, people. The class is ridiculously convoluted as it is and any little thing to make it more streamlined and playable is for the best. Having to maintain pet happiness was a drag, especially in PVP, as is having to level pets. Ditto for pet-specific food. Let pets eat anything. Why do I have to waste bag slots on different foods and add to my already bloated pet-feeder macro every time I get a new pet? Why do I need a pet feeder macro?
Even that last 3 levels you have to train the pet for can take hours per pet, meaning a full stable takes about as much investment in time as a 3 credit college course and is completely unfun.
This is supposed to be a game. It is supposed to be fun. The more Blizzard removes the frustrating, unfun elements, and adds fluid, enjoyable elements, the better. This won't kill the game for that small minority that enjoys obsessing over minutiae, but definitely make it better for the rest of us. Most of us don't fantasize about a career in accounting.
The only downside is that Blizzard rarely gives hunters many goodies or quality of life improvements without giving in to their pathological need to destroy something else to "balance" it, so it leaves you wondering what price we will have to pay for the end of pet happiness and leveling. Will our pets do the same 125 percent damage that they did with full happiness? I am guessing the price we'll pay is 100 percent damage.
Feb 3rd 2011 6:27PM MMOs and RPGs could learn from the industry's mistakes, too.
1. Frustration is not fun. There is a difference between creating challenging content that is fun and adding tedious, excessively difficult, or unfun elements to game content for no other reason than to make it frustrating, an example being the Vic's Keys quest in Sholazar, or the Cata cooking quests.
2. Killing the same mob over and over again (grinding) isn't fun.
3. Variable drop rates suck. Related to point 2, variable drop rates turn the usual tedium of specific number kill quests into an exercise in psychological torture where you have no idea how much you have to kill until your done and thus no idea when the tedium will end. If I need 10 rooster tails, I should be able to kill 10 roosters to get them. Better yet, do a reverse variable drop rate where you might be able to kill less than 10 roosters to get what you need.
4. Do away with repair costs and corpse runs in dungeons. The cost of running with bad PUGs in time and gold can be enormous and serve as a deterrent to people willing to PUG to do instances. Dungeons should function much like the BGs in Warcraft do: you die, you rez nearby, and it doesn't cost you anything.
5. Carrots are more fun than sticks. Related to point 4, do away with punishments and disincentives to guide player behavior and instead stick to rewards. Instead of punishing players with high repair costs and corpse runs for repeated wiping, for example, you can reward them for finishing instances without wiping.
6. Do away with classes. This would be a true industry innovation. Don't pigeonhole people into playing one role with slight variations but allow people to instantly spec into whatever role they might like to play, with talent choices taken from a large pool of abilities.
7. If you're going to have PVP, then balance the classes. WoW PVP is ridiculously unbalanced meaning you either play an op class that isn't challenging or a nerf object class that is so weak and difficult to play as to be unfun, The only things that should distinguish one player from the next are playstyle, skill and luck, not class and gear.
Jan 20th 2011 9:58AM What I wrote is factually correct. As a BM hunter I rarely hit for more than 6k in BGs. This has nothing to do with skill. My spec is taken straight from elitistjerks, I have full PVP gear with all the right gems and enchants, and there is nothing magical about what happens when I press a button versus when someone more skilled does. We do the same damage, all bragging to the contrary.
You might, rarely, hit 35k as a hunter with the right spec and top gear in PVP, but that is certainly not the norm. I saw someone post a screenshot so I know it can happen, the fact he needed a screenshot to prove it to other hunters speaks volumes. Remember we hit for less in PVP than PVE due to the damage mitigation of resilience. All healing classes can easily outheal my damage.
As for our "heals" it is technically inccorrect to say we have no self-heal, just as it is technically incorrect to say you have no money to pay your rent when in fact you have $10.00 in your pocket. But for all practical purposes, $10.00 won't get you very far when it comes to paying rent, and our pathetic self-heals don't amount to much when it comes to PVP. In essence, it is as if they don't exist. That's the truth of the matter, and it is misleading to say we have self-healing without mentioning the fact that our self-healing is effectively worthless in PVP. Ditto for all our other lackluster abilities.
The idea that we are "tough" in PVP is contradicted by the huge number of posts in the forums detailing the many flaws with the class and the fact that even the top hunters in the game are claiming they can't go one against one with other classes or compete in arena anymore. This reality is clearly demonstrated by the scarcity of hunters in the top arena teams. Denying these flaws and implying they are due to lack of skill is faulty reasoning.
Before you comment on these matters I strongly suggest you get some serious PVP experience and not just quote what other people say. The deficiencies become glaringly obvious when you run out of focus in seconds and can't fight back against players who have more than ample energy resources, multiple ways to stun and root you, and powerful self-heals when your tools are totally inadequate to match or counter this. I know how easy it is to kill another hunter vs any other class, even with my pathetic damage. Warriors that can hit for 75k and do 20k white damage can melt you in seconds, and they have far more ways to close the gap on you than you have to escape, better cc, and better cc-breakers. Even their thrown weapon gives them a free daze on you when you try to run to range. Casters can shoot and drain life, etc, through walls. Read the forums with other classes talking about how easy it is to nuke a hunter.
This is the reality of PVP "balance" at the moment:
Jan 17th 2011 6:20PM Presenting reasons why I think the hunter class is broken does not constitute "ranting and raving," but accusing people of "whining" and "qq" when they express opinions that differ from yours is flat-out trolling. You have a lot of nerve criticizing anyone for their "behavior" when you're clearly looking to attack people, rather than rationally discuss the issues I raised.
I am also concerned about the way many bloggers play up the hunter class, not being honest about its severe deficiencies, the huge skill requirement, or how frustrating playing a hunter is in PVP. People have a right to hear the truth, preferably before they have spent months investing in a game or character that isn't what it is being advertised as. If telling people the truth and discussing things openly constitutes "whining" in your eyes you need a serious attitude check.
Jan 17th 2011 3:48PM Tell Blizzard that the sky is falling, that we suck in PvP, that we are switching classes because of the PTR, that there are many bugs they need to fix or else, that we are quitting this game? NO. Or rather... if you are threatening to quit, then please do so the rest of us can enjoy the game.
How does people presenting legitimate grievances about the problems in the game effect your enjoyment of the game? You can't have fun unless everyone kisses Blizzard's ***?
Jan 17th 2011 3:46PM That isn't all.
You get chimera only if you're specced for MM. Then you get a tepid 5 percent heal with chimera shot which costs a whopping 50 focus and has a 10 second cd. You typically won't live long enough/have enough focus to get off a second chimera in a 1 vs 1 fight. To get a pet heal, you have to have a spirit beast, which many of us don't have the time or inclination to camp for. Spirit Bond gives you 2 percent health every 10 secs. Whoooo!
Everybody else just gets a self heal with no BS or gimmicks. Drain life heals warlocks and kills me faster than I can DPS them down.
Do you guys all work for Blizzard, or just enjoy playing a broken class?
Jan 17th 2011 12:34PM I play this class and have every right to complain. This is fanboyism, pure and simple.
You present a laundry list of abilities without mentioning that most of these abilities are weak, redundant, useless, or require too much focus which we have little of in PVP. Almost all classes can charge/blink/shadowstep etc through much of our cc and get right in our faces, at which point we're useless. Not a "deadzone" per se but effectively the same thing. We have no real way of getting to range but disengage, which is inadequate and wonky at the best of times.
Most of our cc breaks with damage, which makes it useless as anything but an escape tool, if that. We can have multiple traps, but other players often run right over them without setting them off, and they have an arming time and are hard to aim on the go, requiring you press two buttons with a fake GCD in between. Many of our abilities are contraindicated, such as the inability to use serpent sting in PVP for fear of it breaking your (or someone else's) freezing trap.
Even standing still and hitting other players with everything I have it is far harder for me to kill them that in it is for them to kill me. Everybody has a self heal but us. My shots do 6k tops, while boomkins hit me for 35k, blow me off cliffs, and can heal themselves. Managing focus is incredibly frustrating in PVP, and just one more of the myriad things we have to manage while frost mages jump within our minimum range, spam cc us and ice lance us down in 5 shots.
Our anti-cc requires a live pet be within range, which isn't much use when the pet is cc'ed too. We run out of focus in an instant in a 1 on 1 fight and every good rogue knows to wait until you blow your focus to attack you, at which point you're a guaranteed free kill. I do the same to other hunters: wait a few seconds until they blow their focus and then hit them with all my focus/cds intact. I routinely beat SV hunters with 10 times the skill I have by exploiting this crap game mechanic.
Aspect of the Cheetah? You must be joking. As if it isn't easy enough to stun/daze/root us this ability gives them a free daze on you. Not to mention the free daze warriors/rogues get with their thrown weapons when you're trying to get to range from them. Strictly for escape purposes, like everything else.
Don't tell me we're viable in PVP. I play this game.
Jan 17th 2011 11:10AM Hunters are not "awesome" when it comes to PVP, and the severe imbalance issues we face should have been glaringly obvious to anyone who took 15 minutes to test them out in a BG or listen to someone else who did. They should be particularly obvious to those who are familiar with the strengths and abilities of other classes. We have every right to be angry that Blizzard seems to be implementing nerfs rather than addressing these issues--and longstanding, frustrating bugs--whether these nerfs are final or not. It gives a sense of the direction the developers are taking--the same which they always take towards our class, which is to make us less effective in PVP while giving us frustrating, useless, or gimmicky tools to compensate and yes, more keybinds and resources to manage on the go, no matter how many times we complain we're overwhelmed with keybinds, macros and buttons. When all is said and done we usually come out the losers with these revamps when it comes to PVP, rarely getting what we need to be viable. With each expansion we become weaker and weaker in PVP to the point hunter PVP is now a frustrating and unrewarding joke.
Sure, we don't know what the final changes will be. But in the end, the naysayers are usually right. Will this patch be an exception? It doesn't look like it.
There comes a point where quitting the game is a rational response, and that's the point at which the frustration exceeds the fun. Blizzard needs to start thinking of ways to make PVP viable and FUN for hunters. Playing target-dummy for all the op, self-healing classes out there isn't fun.
Dec 13th 2008 4:17AM "Bring the player, not the class.'
"Bring the player, not the hunter" is what it will end up as.
Dec 11th 2008 5:32PM Blizzard developers are indeed cowards, which is why they have to ban players who criticize them while they allow themselves the freedom to insult and abuse players by calling them "whiners," "huntards" and "terrorists," all said by GC or other developers on the hunter threads.
They also don't have the guts to come here and respond to anyone on a forum they don't control, and where they can't delete any comment that refutes their stupidity or asshatedness.