Nov 5th 2008 7:22PM I am also in a small 7 person casual guild. (We've been joining another guild on 25 man raids). But we've never had problems getting a PUG, and certainly haven't minded grabbing a completely unorthodox group to run something. Additionally we all have multiple 70's just so we could switch up, both for success in the raid and for plain variety.
I'm bummed that toons I created have suddenly turned into the same role as toons that I already had.
Not that I'm not glad it's helping you. :o)
For those Hardcore Players out there who care for nothing but progression, progression, progression, perhaps our "unorthodox groups" sounds like noobish heresy and that's why you see this change as a blessing, but for you people your ultimate attainment is besting the game and others, not about the journey and my other arguments of "then why not have one class, one talent tree and 15 talents" comes into play. All you care about is "Skill" and your myopic view lends its self to my "Fine here is your 15 skills go beat your brethren with them and 'prove' your the best" logic. Ms. Pac man only had one control. If you ultimate proof of fun is just a high score, what to you need diversity for, right?
Nov 5th 2008 6:57PM B was the Evil Blizz Department that turned my Shadow Priest into a Mage/Lock/Hunter (yes - that uses a Blue glowie ball/shadowy glowy ball/arrow to do the exact same thing) and thereby destroy my dreams of being a Mana battery.
Nov 5th 2008 5:24PM Shadow Priest problem in a "Battle Rez" metaphor:
Ok Druid we're gonna let you keep the Battle Rez, but now it takes 60 seconds to cast, rezes them with 1 health, and has a 2 hour cooldown....
Mages and Locks, you now can Battle Rez, and you can do it as an instant cast, rez's to full health and has a 10 sec cooldown.
Shadow Priest's VT (one of their uniquenesses) got raped, beaten and stolen in the most aggressive ways to make room for the new world order.
This is across the board with most classes that had some uniqueness. It's just wrong. (Weeps for the Druid)
Nov 5th 2008 4:56PM Alkahn said..."You're describing a situation that already existed. In even a remotely min-max scenario of even pretty casual raiding guilds, you would never take someone who decided to go "half shadow/half holy". Because what you get is someone who can neither DPS well nor heal well enough to do the content you have."
Oh let me clarify. I'm not talking about Half shadow/ Half Holy in the talent tree. I'm talking more so about the very "Utility" you mention. I WANTED to be a Mana Battery when I rolled my Shadow Preist. I KNEW I wouldn't be the main healer, I KNEW I wouldn't be the top DPSer.
I just wanted to be a little ole Mana Battery and boost my buddies.
Nov 5th 2008 4:49PM Ok, now to get specific. I have a 70 Warrior Tank, a 70 Deep Frost Mage and a 68 Shadow Priest. The latter being the last one I was leveling, and PURELY because I was interested in a Mana Battery Support Role.
Now here I am close to seeing how my mana regeneration abilities were going to help my raids and instance groups, excited about what I've seen so far as I watch the Mana and Health barrel out of my nice little Mind Flay string and BAM. Screw you Shadow Priest. The very skill that made you known as the "Mana Battery" is nerfed to nothing, and I've given away your skill to Hunters and Pallies. How's that feel?
It feels like crap.
When I feel like being the center of attention and the center of the action I get on my Tank. I get lots of invites and can play with my evil Tank blinders on going from mob to mob like an invincible super hero.
When I want to kick back at range and DPS and crowd control I jump on my Frost Mage. Lazers Pew Pew.
When I want to boost the group by reducing the strain on the healers or give mana to the Spell casters I was getting on my Shadow Priest.
This change KILLED my toon. My Shadow Priest is being turned into my Frost Mage. Are there differences? Yes. My Frost Mage shoots a Blue ball, and my Shadow Priest shoots a purple string. BIG DEAL. And the other now minimalized differences have so been relegated to the minor leagues they don't really create any substantive differences.
I feel ripped off by this change. I feel short changed. I hear that you want "Battle rez" like the "other class". But if that's the case and the role you want to play is to "Battle Rez" then roll a Druid. It seems like theft to take my uniqueness and give it to multiple classes.
I makes me angry and want to throw my hands up in the air and say "Why have any classes at all????"
Why not have no talent tree, 15 skills and everyone gets them so no one "feels left out". Guild Wars gave "Hero NPC's" to individuals and thereby gave all the skill sets to have under the control of the player. It killed the game. No one got in groups anymore, because you didn't "need" anyone. This move seems to me like it's anti-social and anti-diversity. It dumbs down the game.
You want players with skill? Does it take more or less skill to play the same 3 roles vs. adapting to 12 different types?
In the end, I'll deal. Maybe I'll like it in the end you never know. More than likely however, I'll turn into a mindless DPS Zombie with my Shadow Priest and when I've confirmed there's no difference between my Frost Mage and my Shadow Preist, I'll just join the lemmings and respec as a Healer, so I have EVERY role covered in Wow with my 3 toons.
Nov 5th 2008 4:07PM I feel compelled to continue. Let go old school with the "You have 100 points to spend to create a character." concept.
Person A rolls putting all 100 points in "DPS" as their personality is all about I want to OWN on DPS., DPS, DPS, DPS. Roar!
Person B puts 50 points in DPS and 50 points in HEAL as they like a little of both. And that's just it, they LIKE a little of both. They are willing to sacrifice DPS so that they can HEAL.
Both toons are 100 point toons. Both are equal in power, they're just different in how that power is distributed. Both have can have advantages and disadvantages and add complexity to grouping that makes the game challenging and fun.
WoW is now telling us in this example, nope. You're either DPS or HEAL. There's no in between anymore. Any of you players that liked to add complexity to your role and whom truly were equal with other classes now need to join the masses. You now have three puritanical choices. DPS, HEAL or TANK, that's it no mixing and matching.
Nov 5th 2008 3:38PM Let me point this out another way:
A: Ok I'm new to WoW, I like ranged DPS. Which class should I play?
B: Oh, you can play Lock, Mage, Shaman, Hunter, or Shadow Priest.
A: What's the difference between each?
B: There isn't any.
A: Ok, so there really isn't 5 or 6 classes that are different, I'm just choosing what I look like?
B: Correct, little lemming. Join the masses and find friends quickly cause your "role" is a dime a dozen.
Nov 5th 2008 3:02PM Bah! I completely disagree with those of you happy with making every class the same. To make my point using an extreme: A typical warrior class player wants to be up close and hitting things. A mage class knows not to "get to close" to the fight and plays at range. Personalities choose classes that fit. If (again to exaggerate) A mage can tank and a tank can fight at range both just as effectively, WHY HAVE ANY CLASSES AT ALL??? Why have any skills that are any different. Just cookie cutter out 15 Skills that everyone uses regardless of their "Class - i.e. their now just their look in the game) and then.... as many of you are putting it... It's all about skills not class.
I think this KILLS one of the unique characteristics of WoW and disenfranchises tons of players that USED TO like their class. If I as a shadow preist wanted to be a huge DPSer I would get on my already made lock. Why the #@$% are they turning my Shadow Preist into a lock???? Why are there 4 Tank classes? With this thinking why not have all classes tank, why not have 1 talent tree for all classes.
I hate this change. It's lame.
Nov 3rd 2008 3:07PM I rolled a Shadow Priest for one reason and one reason only. "Mana Battery". Doesn't matter how you slice it, this is no longer an appropriate title for a Shadow Priest. I am no longer a support in the group. I didn't come to the Priest class to be a top DPS'er. I have a Mage, a Lock, a Hunter and a Rogue. I came to the priest class to support my team with the top Mana producer because the level of this mana support was almost exclusive to this class. Changes can be welcome, but when the reason you rolled the class in the first place is completely removed.... that's lame.