Apr 26th 2010 2:01PM very well put! let's see how it's going to roll
Apr 26th 2010 1:52PM before you ignore my hole post, i'm not a 25man hardcore who only cares with ilvl or GS.
i'm on a semi hardcore 25man and i don't agree with these changes because of this:
first i don't mind ilvl being equal on 10 man / 25 man, i like the idea if the difficulty on 10man and 25man is the same. The problem is that the difficulty will never be the same. Ppl who do 25 man have to deal with more complex fights in terms of managing peoples, positioning, timing, etc, and that is always a big factor on how hard a fight really is. And at least for me having 2 more pieces of gear or an extra emblem or a bit more gold isn't going to be a big bonus for having to go that extra mile of going 25, especially since getting that piece of loot you want is so tied to RNG and luck on how many ppl want that item.
its not a status quo thing, its a "ok i'm doing this because i want to tackle stuff on an epic size (25 man fighting a boss is always epic) and fell that i did something and i get something that can say "ok i did this and i'm proud of it". Its like the normal-heroic difference. most ppl will clear normal modes and say "ok thats good enough for me" others will only stop when they clear heroic mode but they get rewards that allow them to say "ok i got something that shows the effort i put on this".
plus the bigger question is how are guild like mine that have a good 25 man team but not enough class balance to make 3 10 man teams so everyone can still play do?
are we gonna cut ppl and go 10 man because we are getting killed on 25 several times on a boss because of the higher dificulty of positioning 25 ppl and we aren't getting neither loot, nor progress to see further down the content and with 10 man we could have killed and farmed that boss ages ago and get the same rewards?
for me these are tough questions because it's not a one person related issue, it affects at least 24 other people who i'm used to play with because let's face it, 25 man guilds get more demoralized faster and get stuck on progress because of it then 10 man guilds. it's always easier to refresh 1-2 people on the raid than 5-6 that got tired of wiping on the same spot (especially if they start thinking, heck in 10 man we would probably kill this guy).
i say this because on my guild we had problems of this sort on icc because many of the fights require a lot of good positioning and reaction time of 25 ppl instead of 10 ppl, and that is always harder to achieve independently of gear lvl.
i'm not completely against this changes, and i'll have to see how they are going to be implemented. i just hope they don't bring havoc to my game experience because at first view that's what's going to happen
Apr 26th 2010 1:23PM point taken sir! but i don't think 10 man are faceroll but 25 man are also tuned for 25 man gear. i know gear lvl is always a factor on fights but it can only help you up to a point. plus you can have a person in full mix of tier 10-10.5 bought by emblems and voa runs and they still will drop like flies on 10/25 man icc runs because of lack of skill.
Don't tell me that on fights that positioning are a major issue that 10 man have a harder time then 25 man. for example putricide or rotface (the slime management is much easier on 10 man in my opinion). Saurfang is another big example of this, doing that fight on 25 man is much harder then 10 man because the space you have to safely move on adds is much less then on 10 man and you have a higher number of adds on 25 man than 10 man, so the fail rate on 25 man is higher then 10 man.
i know that for ppl who usually do 10 man instead of 25 man this changes are great, but for ppl like me who are used to be on a 25 man guild because i like the epic felling you get with a little army fighting a huge boss, this changes are bad because on the bottom line for guilds its "ok we have to dump 15 ppl since we don't have enough enough class balance on the guild to do at least 3 good 10 man groups and we can't get more players since they are now only interested on doing 10 mans" and since on big guilds you always have inner circles these changes, if not done properly on really make 25 and 10 man difficulty very but i mean VERY similar and the 25 man rewards be REALLY higher in quantity it will break guilds like havoc and i fear it will happen on my guild because:
1 - it's always easier to organize and run 10 man independently on how they are tuned difficulty wise
2 - it's the same lockdown and the possibility of getting ppl failling at fights on 25 man are higher than 10 man you will get more progress on 10 man earlier than on 25 man because the gear can only take you halfway.
but like always that is my opinion, i respect yours and i'm happy that there are people that are happy with the changes and they will have a better game experience with them ;)
i just hope that these changes don't completely destroy my raiding experience to something very less epic and enjoyable.
Apr 26th 2010 12:23PM only way i see this working is if 10 man difficulty goes way higher that it actually is so that the effort you have to do on a 10 man raid is equal to a 25 man raid. If that happens people will start thinking "ok on 10 man i have to the same effort to get a boss down that on a 25 man and i only have 2 drops of loot and with a 25 man i have 6-8 (i hope) drops of loot"
if that happens i think the interest on 25 man raids will still be up and about. if 10 man still continue to be much easier then 25 man, its 25 man raids/guilds RIP because let's face it it's much harder to organize and do a 25 man run than a 10 man run.
really hope that blizzard goes up the difficulty ladder with this than dumbing down (once more) the game.
because let's face it, if the highest normal mode raiding difficulty (25 man) goes down to 10 man and 10 man goes down even further, raiding will become a slot machine game.....
Apr 26th 2010 12:11PM my opinion, bad call by blizzard since it will probably kill every 25 man guild because let's face it, it's much harder to organize a 25 man raid than get 10 of your best guildies/friends and run the instance. Plus it's much less time consuming runs since you don't have to wait for 15 other guys to get ready for the next try on a boss.
I really don't get why blizzard is considering this since for me the 25/10 man distiction always made perfect sense to me (more ppl = more effort = better rewards).
And don't tell me "ohh you have more drops on a 25 man than on 10 man so you increase your possibility on getting X item" because it's bulls... since you will have more ppl needing it and since it will be a little bit harder to get it down then 10 man you probably have more time effort to get the boss down and see the item go to another player then simply farming the boss on 10 man.
plus same lockdown?!? really?
blizzard will be able to simply say "ok we can shut down 25 man raid content since no one is using it". And you can bet their will be major guild drama everywhere because of this because raid leaders will always choose the 10 best for raid slots.
Like someone said on a previous comment it will be a "great time to be tank, ok time to be a healer" and i say to dpsers (like me) get ready for one of two things: Reroll or get ready to give 200% effort in comparison with tanks or healers to simply being able to get a raid spot.
Jul 1st 2009 5:11AM let this roll be a good one
roll1 of 100
May 14th 2009 10:13AM toll
Nov 12th 2008 6:39PM /roll again