Mar 29th 2012 1:31PM The part of the movie that gets me the most is...how the heck did Orgrimmar ever become liquid enough to loan money? Let alone to Silvermoon, a place that's practically swimming in gold?
In the Shattering, the orcs being close to broke was a major plot point - they could barely afford to pay Gazlowe the costs for repairing their city, even after he decided to play good guy and drop the price for them. Since then, they've been in the orc version of a wartime economy - everything gets thrown at the goblins to make demolishers, warships, zeppelins - between that and the plot point about their difficulty raising crops and importing water, Orgrimmar's not exactly a net producer here.
It seems more likely to me that Garrosh has simply decided to enact some kind of "loyalty tax" essentially, 'give orcs money or we kick you out of the Horde and beat you up' and the rest of the Horde isn't playing nice.
It makes no sense otherwise that Silvermoon owes so much more than the other city-states; they're certainly not dropping cash hand over fist into their military like the orcs are, and there's never been a hint so far as I know that they're not reasonably self-sufficient. It makes more sense that Garrosh arbitrarily decided at some point, 'you're a rich nation, you provide few warriors, your contribution to the Horde from now on is that YOU give US the money to train and gear warriors' and now Silvermoon is simply refusing to hand their economy over to the orcs, something in keeping with their longstanding isolationism.
Mar 27th 2012 3:04PM Orgrimmar and Stormwind also have harbors, so the pandaren fleeing the Wandering Isle would naturally show up there.
Mar 25th 2012 3:44PM Far, far past time.
But still welcome news nonetheless. =)
Mar 21st 2012 5:19AM Good god, again with this "your leader" talk. Are you delusional or something? Do you really believe there's a Varian out there? Do you expect a phone call from Garrosh thanking you for taking his side? This is getting disturbing. Again, because you don't really seem to read my posts: I. MAIN. HORDE.
And guess what. I have 85s on both sides too. And the Loremaster title.
But hey. Keep downvoting my posts and convincing yourself I only like Varian because I wear Imperial plate in my free time if it makes you happy.
Mar 20th 2012 5:15PM "Massive Retcon Warcraft Edition? Yeah, I have read that comic."
Dhohohoho, that's cute. Calling it a retcon because that seems to bolster your argument.
We never knew the details of what happened between the Stonemasons and the House of Nobels. In the comic we found out that Onyxia engineered the dispute by mentally coercing both sides into becoming more greedily and unwilling to compromise.
Not a retcon. Canon. Deal with it.
"Nope, Sylvanas, and he was appalled,"
Being "appalled" doesn't let Thrall off the hook here. He was Warchief at the time, meaning he has unlimited authority and power over the Horde. Guess what, with unlimited authority comes the unfortunate fact that ultimate responsibilty rests with same. Thrall is entirely at fault for what happened in Undercity during his reign.
"and then he put in his personal guard to keep watch over the city after learning of her atrocities, Garrosh allowed what Thrall would not have - the new Forsaken."
Actually the Kor'kron permit the experimentation to continue. There's even still people kept in cages. Go on down to the apothecarium and see. Rather strengthes Varian's position.
"Now on the other hand Varian let the massacre of Taurajo go unpunished"
Varian didn't need to step in, genius, General Hawthorne already had the perpetrators who broke ranks arrested.
"...No such thing happened, that's a blatant lie, he had no hand in it, it was Varian attempting retribution after Thrall refused to act after the massacre of the druids, this was made crystal clear at least three times including the books, and I was there anyway, I did everything on both sides, the Twilight Highlands intro implied nothing of the sort."
Yes, it did. If you're willing to use your brain. I realize this might be hard for some people. Major Samuelson was a twilight agent inside Stormwind Keep, and during the Highlands intro we find out he's manipulating SI:7.
Who does Samuelson work for? The Black Bishop, a high-level Twilight agent in the cathedral.
Who was the Black Bishop originally meant to be, and who did all members of the cult pay obey as Twilight Father?
"You're desperate to play down Varian and attack Garrosh,"
I've barely said a word about Garrosh for this whole debate, are you even reading my posts? Or are you just so urgent to defend your video game leader that you'll scream anything at the "other side" you can think of to make yourself look better?
Take a chill pill.
Mar 19th 2012 10:33AM There isn't, Kil. He's responding to the same point I refuted hours ago.
Oh, and I see all the posts I had that were upvoted into blue status have been voted down again, with the reverse done to those I was arguing against. Looks like someone's had a busy night. I'm quite flattered. =)
Mar 19th 2012 8:26AM I don't always agree with Metzen's conclusions (or ideas) but I have to admit, it's always fascinating to hear (or at least read) what he has to say. Even without a voice to them the words on the page just seem to leap out at you like a ball of energy.
Mar 19th 2012 6:16AM BTW, I really like how you keep saying "your king" and how he "leads me" as if I'm some kind of Stormwind guard sitting behind the computer in my imperial plate set.
I play a video game. Varian isn't "my king" any more than Garrosh is your warchief.
(And btw, I main Horde.)
But keep projecting, railgun.
Mar 19th 2012 6:12AM "I'm not wrong... both are warmongers and fools. They are cut from the same cloth, albeit the color and race are different."
Then I'm done arguing with you. It's clear you have no intent of listening to anyone's opinion except your own.
Keep on screaming favoritism. Fight the power, man.
Mar 19th 2012 5:28AM "Well seeing as how I say Varian is just as bad as Garrosh and I get downvoted into oblivion what other answer could there be?"
Maybe you're wrong. Oh, no, that's not possible, it MUST be blind favoritism, right?
"They are the same character..."
Don't state this as some kind of fact. It's not.
"He was in on the Nobles who screwed the masons of Stormwind out of the pay they needed most, which is why Westfall is full of the homeless."
Have you never heard of Onyxia? Have you never read the comic?
"He then attempted to assassinate Thrall during the Battle of Undercity but thankfully Jaina stopped his insane action."
Yeah, you'd almost think he just found out Thrall allowed humans to be caged and experimented on for the plague. Oh wait. HE DID.
"Finally Varian sent SI:7 to kidnap Thrall."
You do realize the implication behind the Alliance Twilight Highlands intro is that BENEDICTUS arranged that for the Twilight, don't you?
"What did Garrosh do even close to those atrocities?"
It has nothing to do with "atrocities" and everything to do with people hating Garrosh because he's a lunkheaded loudmouthed blowhard.