Jan 7th 2010 4:22AM But it's also been said that BTPNTC doesn't mean that class never matters. If you want misery, you bring a sp/boom. If you want mana recovery, you bring one of the classes with replenishment. If you want brez's and innervates, you bring a druid. All of these abilities are nice, but not necessary. Bloodlust is yet another ability that's nice, but not necessary. So class CAN matter and the devs have said that.
BTPNTC just means that they don't want standard comps like the ones that existed before Wrath. They don't want there to be one raid makeup that is so much better than every other comp that certain classes have to reroll to get a raid spot. I ran an ICC run with 5 shamans a couple nights ago that plowed through the content. That's an excellent example of BTPNTC. It's a ridiculous comp that destroyed the content and that would never have happened if we were playing by the same rules for class design that existed in BC and Vanilla.
BTPNTC was designed to create a certain result, not allow you to run around whining about the unique abilities. Every class has unique abilities. If you want certain buffs or abilities, you DO have to bring certain classes. As long as encounters aren't tuned around a certain buff or ability, though, then it's not an issue. Encounters aren't tuned around Bloodlust (in 10s), so it's a non-issue.
Jan 7th 2010 3:59AM In that case, your mini-lust already comes in the form of Potion of Speed. :) Just have everyone use theirs at the same time!
Jan 6th 2010 3:09PM Bloodlust is not comparable to MotW/BoK/Fort. 10s are not tuned for bloodlust.
BTPNTC is taken out of context many times. BTPNTC doesn't mean you can have whatever comp you want. It means bring skilled players that best fit your raid.
As an extension of this, the drums and scrolls were provided for stam buffs that were absolutely necessary to tanks. On the other hand, 10s are not tuned for bloodlust. Just because you see it as necessary, does not mean that it was designed to be necessary. If you need lust for 10s you might have a gear, skill, or make-up problem, but not a Bloodlust problem.
Jan 6th 2010 3:02PM People seem to confuse "viable" with "having equal dps to the non-hybrid classes." Gear and skill being equal, the feral druid is going to beat the enhancement shaman every time in stationary fights. They're both hybrids, but one is much more powerful than the other. Results vary because many fights require movement, but in general enh and ele do significantly less damage than the other viable hybrid dps classes.
Blizzard has also said they want to reward people for particular mastery of difficult priority lists/rotations. Enh arguably has the hardest in the game, but mastery of it provides nowhere near the results that mastery of the feral druid one does.
Jan 6th 2010 2:57PM 10s are tuned without Bloodlust in mind, so it's a non-issue. The stam buffs ARE necessary for new tiers of gear while Bloodlust is not. If you want it, bring a shaman. If you want misery, bring a sp/boomkin. If you want replenishment, bring one of those classes.
Blues have also said before that "btpntc" should not be taken out of context. They aren't saying that some classes will never be better than others or have specific abilities that other classes won't bring. They just won't tune instances to require a specific cooldown (like bloodlust) so that you can bring whatever you want to fit into your makeup within reason. BTPNTC doesn't mean, for example, that you can raid with 10 rogues and clear ICC in the first week on 10s. As an extentsion of BTPNTC, 10s are not tuned to include Bloodlust. If you're having issues in 10s without Bloodlust, it's a gear or skill issue.
Jan 6th 2010 2:48PM If 10 main raids aren't tuned with bloodlust in mind (and they're not), and you have issues in them without it (which you're saying you do), then something other than Bloodlust is the problem, sir.
Bloodlust can be a crutch for lack of gear or skill, but still isn't necessary in 10s.
Jan 6th 2010 2:35PM Bloodlust isn't mandatory, though. The stam buffs were awesome for tanks because of the way tanking has gone in wrath. Bloodlust isn't a buff, it's a cooldown. There's a huge difference between lust and mark of the wild.
Jan 6th 2010 2:29PM They've talked about this before. In the end, the Blues always say: it's easy to find a shaman in one of three specs that fits in your raid for the ability, Bloodlust isn't as necessary as players think it is and people are just overreacting (wow players overreacting, imagine that? :p), the damage increase is as drastic as it is because cooldowns are timed with Bloodlust, that a crafted bloodlust provides unique challenges to balance that other crafted buffs do not, the current crafted items actually have unbuffed versions, which makes it easier to choose a reasonable downgrade for the item.
Overall, I think they will not and should not do it. Bloodlust is a special cooldown as opposed to the other buffs that have received crafted items. It's not like kings or mark of the wild. It's up for 30 seconds per fight. Also, there are plenty of buffs that you cannot get crafted items of that are even more important to the raid than Bloodlust. Misery definitely comes to mind. There are also plenty of cooldown based abilities that buff people that would be awesome for other classes to use. No one is clamoring for a scroll of di, or a scroll of bop. A crafted wrath of air totem would be a nice boost. There are many class-specific buffs and cooldown abilities that are not made into scrolls. Bloodlust has always fallen in this category and should stay there.
I also agree with the blue post that a crafted item would be op, even when they take it down a notch from the full bloodlust. A random crafted profession shouldn't be able to have a bloodlust they can use anytime. That causes balance issues in BGs, in single-player PVE, and possibly in raids and we really don't need any more balance issues. :p
Jan 2nd 2010 6:20PM I'd totally rock a neon pink butterfly guild tabard t.