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The state of the Horde and the Alliance {WoW}

May 5th 2009 8:32PM I have seen some arguments saying that the leaders of the horde are evil.
this however is not the case.

it is understandable that people say kael thas without hesitation.

but kael joined forces with the naga and illidan after abandoning the alliance, kidnapped muru and began working with demons, thats when lor themar was like "right, he is clearly evil, hey thrall can we join your guild to help you stop him and help ensure our mutual survivability and work together with the horde for peace?" and thrall was like "sure"

and you can say that sylvannas is evil i suppose due to the RAS (which i am very interested to see how it will turn out)
i know people may argue saying that she was betrayed by varimathras and putress but it was her who founded the RAS in the first place for that purpose.

so in conclusion

Orc's = not evil (since freeing themselves of demonic corruption)
Tauren = have never been evil
Troll's = darkspear not evil (only tribe in the horde)
forsaken = tough to say, RAS suggests they are
blood elves = not evil anymore, the highborne and kael thas are gone

Horde not evil :)

humans = not evil, although they did found the cult of the dammed
dwarves = not evil, iron dwarves in northrend though
night elves = not evil and never have been, although there was the highborne
drenai = not evil, but what do you think the demons were in the first place
gnomes = not evil (except from the dreaded and much feared leper gnomes)

alliance not evil,

each faction has there own little dark stories that the people who play them choose to ignore when bashing the apposing faction

So none of the faction leaders are even slightly evil but are in fact some of the greatest and good leaders there race has ever seen, especially in the case of thrall and velan who have led their people form evil to peace

well sylvannas may be evil, as i said i am very curious to see how blizz are gonna deal with her and the RAS in the near future hopefully, i have my theories as does everyone else

and one more little point, only the forsaken know the true meaning of the RAS, the other members of the horde beleive it to be a society looking for a cure to the scourge plague.
and the i dont beleive the quests in tarren mill that the horde recieve that i read about in other threads would exactly be inffluential to the lore of warcraft, i beleive they were intended as forsaken quests but anyone may do them horde side

I play alliance and horde, i and a lore whore, i am not biased but i will say i do enjoy the lore of the horde much more than the alliance, much more depth, although the n elf lore is on par ;)

fair dues to anyone who could be bothered to read all this and thank you for your time, feel free to reply,
my regards :)

Varian Wrynn is Right, Part III {WoW}

May 4th 2009 10:01AM The last paragraph is a summary so read that if you want the jist of things

This is completely biased and holds no objectivity, and before someone calls me on this it is possible to give both sides of a story and still be biased. and i know this is biased to but it gives the other side of the story

you complain a lot about orgrim in your thread,
any member of the horde and alliance who kow's their lore can tell you that orgrim was a hero of the horde, it is understanable that the alliance hold many grudges against him, the fact of the matter is that orgrim was a good leader in a harsh time, he killed his previous warchief who was leader of the demonic horde and took the title of warcheif, killing all necromancers, warlocks in the horde apart from guldan(with the benefit from hindsite was a mistake), hunted down the shadow council and killed them.

Orgrim did a lot for the horde and was a great leader but unfortunatly he had to deal with the war on the humans, a war which he never wanted but was something he could not ignore and the war on humans story is pretty self explanitory. most people will agree that orgrim fought lothar one on one.
to orgrim in his weakened state it may have appeared to be an attack on his base from lothar and his battalion of paladins and whatever circumstances may have been they were forced into combat.

the author also complained about the title of warchief.
this is an orcish title that dates back for hundreds or maybe thousands of years and just because the demonic horde used this acient title gives little reason to stop using it (besides if orgrim doomhammer himself gave unto me the title of warchief and the passed the Domhammer itself unto me i would never relinquish them, as they are both legendary weapons and are both symbolic amoungst the horde)

the author also spoke about garona, who is presumed to be either half orc half drenai or human, i believe what she did was wrong, but she was also heavily involved with the shadow council so i am also not suprised by what she done, she was a remnant of the demonic horde anyway,

so when judging orgrim, he caused a lot of trouble for the alliance and i can understand completely why they would not like him form their point of view, but what i would like to point out that the horde was criticised for revering orgrim doomhammer, for naming cities after him, he is a hero to the horde, that is all i can say about him, he freed the horde from the demonic horde and was not involved with and the dark horde.
and the warchief should not be scolded for wearing his ceremonial armour and weapon.

The alliance complains about the horde lumber camps in ashenvale,
The horde complains about the alliance mines in the barrens

and when you mention the royal apothicary society and their evil acts and complain about them and condeme them i would agree, if we knew about it,
it is easy to look something up on wow wiki, its a shame the warcheif cant do the same, it would be a big eye opener to him, we as players are not supposed to know about the RAP true intentions, only the forsaken know about it, even the dark lady did not know all about putress's plans,
but when the warchief was told about the wrathgate he walked in there himself and personally dealt with varimathras at the very source of the problem,
when the horde thinks about the RAP they think its researching the undead plague etc, we dont know what the forsaken know.

i beleive i have covered a lot about the horde's side of the story here and if you are going to read anything i have wrote let it be this,
thrall befriended orgrim who IS a hero to the horde as he took the first steps of freeing the horde from the demonic corruption and he is right to use the title of warchief and use the legendary doomhammer and armour, he was right to stop varimathras, he had nothing to do with the events of the wrathgate and i for one Cannot wait to see him assert his power to garrosh by smacking him upside the head with the very doomhammer garrosh himself covets. thrall is a decant leader who focuses on how the horde have changed and set themselves free and are indeed a new horde who are making their own legacy for new warchiefs to follow (and yes these new warchief's will also wield the doomhammer)

Varian may be right