Jul 4th 2009 7:20PM I prefer fireworks that make a huge bang. The louder the better!
May 14th 2009 8:23AM I guess I am sort of different here. I sort of count WoW as my major hobby; any other games I play, anything else I do by myself, I rank WoW above. On my raid nights, Tues-Thurs, WoW comes first. I get my homework and jazz done before it, and then I'm good. Otherwise, I rank friends and family above it. On weekends, I play a little bit during the day, and hang out with people at night.
May 13th 2009 10:00PM Commenting for phat lootz!
May 5th 2009 6:14PM Tempus, I really don't think you're reading what we are saying. We get that developers would like for everyone to see what they work oh so hard on, and we get that the more casual people would like to see the raids somewhere besides a youtube video. However, we need to strike a good balance between impossibly hard content and insta-epics.
Hard modes aren't as fun as new, different hard bosses for serious players. You can yell and scream that they should be all you want, it doesn't change the fact that they just aren't. Maybe that makes us elitist, maybe that makes us jerks. Either way, we aren't having the fun we used to have, and isn't that what the game is all about (as you keep insisting)? If so, this fun needs to be preserved.
That is why the original 10/25 split was perfect. People who want to see the content, but don't have all the time needed in the past, can run an easier 10 man version. This would have somewhat sub-par loot and a lower tier set (7 vs. 7.5), but everyone who wants to see the content and experience the fights can.
Meanwhile, the 25 man raids are deliberately tuned to be much harder than the 10 man versions. The loot would be much better, but the difficulty would be that much higher. There would just be one mode; not various tiers of difficulty.
This solves the problem perfectly. If you see a person in iLvl 239 gear, or that different shade of tier gear, you know they are 'hardcore', and more importantly, that hardcore player knows you know he is hardcore. They get the recognition on the competitive progression, and they get the unadulterated fun that comes with a traditional, difficult raid, while everyone else gets to see the content that they didn't get to see before. Everyone wins!
May 5th 2009 8:50AM @Sinthar
You made a myriad of good points. I certainly don't want to take away from any fun of others (and that's why I wish they would make 10 man the easy mode, and have 25 be heroic). However, there are two things you said I would like to respond to.
1. Sure, I could just quit, couldn't I? Not really. That is like saying, "Hey, your boy didn't win the last Presidential Election? Move to Canada!" WoW is the best MMO the world has ever seen, hands down, and currently dominates the market. As much as I complain, I don't want to stop playing it any more than you do. Besides, where could we hard-cores go? Warhammer? Dieing as we speak. AoC? Lying bleeding in a gutter. The only other decent PvE based game out their is LotR Online, but even that has its flaws. Besides, its my right to complain that the hard-core crowd isn't being fully represented, in my mind, just as others complained they weren't getting to see the content. Just don't say I should stop playing just because I disagree with Blizzard on one issue.
Second, don't just assume that, because I am in favor of difficult content, that I live in my mothers basement, or whatever have you. I have a good social life, and I still raid 3 nights a week. It's not that hard to find a balance, believe it or not. Not all raiders are anti-social basement dwellers, as you seem to think.
Finally, Sylvok hit the nail on the head. WoW has a very high player turn-over rate (due to addiction and burn-out), and speaking from experience, casuals seem to cycle in and out a bit faster (reffering to the younger, middle-to-high school crowd here). Hardcore players supply a solid base that the game can depend on, both to play and recruit more players. If they leave, the subscription base, not to mention the in game economy, will eventually die.
May 5th 2009 12:22AM But my whole point is that the content SHOULDN'T be pugable, and that their new philosophy is wrong. When it is the loot rewards, and the bragging rights that go with it, that motivate people, why would they even think about doing it on a 'hard mode'?
Imagine two guilds start out on equal footing, gear wise. One guild clears the normal modes every week, going through it in two nights, and, assuming 4 pieces of gear per boss, obtains 52 epics. The second guild works 3 nights a week, but only does hard-modes. They manage to drop an average of 6 bosses per weekly cycle (over a 3 month period). This is 5 epics per boss, or 30 per week. The guild trying for hard modes, thus, is severely handicapping themselves, when compared to the first, more casual guild.
Why should this have to happen? MMO's are primarly based on character comparison and competition, so why should we be forced to handicap ourselves in that aspect if only to maintain the difficulty we have come to accept from both this game and the genre?
Hard-modes are indeed an excuse for more difficult content. Imagine a world (of Warcraft) where every five man instance was Wailing Caverns, except with higher level mobs, and maybe a new boss technique every 10 levels. That is, essentially, what hard-modes are. Why should you have to progress through the 'easy modes', if only have to turn again and wipe on the hard modes? Its not new content, and it almost isn't fun. Speaking from experience, there just isn't the same exhilaration and joy from downing hard modes than whole new bosses from past expansions. MMO"s are all about fun, you say? Well, the hard-cores are losing theirs.
Look, Hard Raid content isn't a mistake. 3 years of wow, and 2 years of an expansion, weren't a mistake. 2 decades of a genre weren't a mistake. The very constituents of the MMORPG genre NEED hard content for their fun, and have had it up until very recently.
Look, I personally liked the philosophy that they had at Wrath's conception; have the 10 man raids be 'easy mode', so casual players can see the content, and have the 25 man HEROIC raids be difficult and drop better gear. This way, the hard-cores can still have their progression and their superiority. But no, I guess too many people didn't like getting less reward for less time.
May 4th 2009 10:50PM "A mmorpg is about having fun and experiencing the story, not having something somebody else doesn't have. People may envy items or something somebody else has, but they couldn't care less who has it; they just know thye don't have it yet and they will get it someday."
Man, with all due respect, you are completely off base here. The entire MMORPG genre (read: EQ, EVE, DAoC, etc) is built around putting as much time as possible into the game, and obtaining rewards to compensate. Most people like to play all different kinds of games; that's fine. However, a certain group of people, such as myself, enjoy focusing on one or two particular games, and those games alone. And, for 2 decades, the MMORPG genre has provided a niche for just those people.
World of Warcraft, and most MMOs in general, are not hard in the sense that you need to be keeping track of the cool-downs and priorities of 20-30 different spells or abilities, or you need pinpoint accuracy with a curser. No, the main difficulty comes from time required, the massive time sink itself being a pillar of the industry. So, with time required as the main difficulty, be it wiping on a boss or grinding rep, players who put more time in naturally expect more rewards. However, rewards don't have to be loot; a reward could be a server-wide message letting everyone know that they were the first warrior to 80, or the satisfaction of knowing that they have downed a boss no one else has even seen.
Now, you may see this as 'e-peen rubbing', or something that hardcore players shouldn't see as a reward. However, these are things that are pursued by the elite, and I, for one, don't think it is something to be ashamed of. Again, in an industry that has previously been based on time put in to the game, it is only natural to want to be the best. And, like a world rank on Company of Heroes, or a % completed on Guitar Hero, the average iLvl of your gear, or how far you have progressed are factors hard-core players can use to compare themselves to, and show themselves they are better than, the other players who play the game.
Naturally now, you can see how the Hardcore players get upset when 'casuals' demand content be nerfed so they can complete it. Up until wow, and some may argue even BC, MMORPG's have NOT been for casual, part-time players. People played them seriously and heavily. More than that; they considered them a hobby. Now, consider that arguably the best MMORPG of all time has come out and captivated millions. Suddenly, casual players, the complete opposite crowd for who MMORPG's are for, start crowding the market, and demand the whole nature of the genre be changed just for them. The Hardcore, the old players, the ones who discovered WoW in the first place and made it what it is today, feel rejected and unwanted, simply because the casual masses pay more.
And please, please don't say "Hard modes are still there for the hardcores!" Hard modes are a pitiful excuse for content, especially when players care more for rewards, and not the progression itself (NOT that there is anything wrong with that).