Mar 21st 2012 6:41AM "Good god, again with this "your leader" talk. Are you delusional or something? Do you really believe there's a Varian out there? Do you expect a phone call from Garrosh thanking you for taking his side? This is getting disturbing. "
Really? You're on a site discussing lore, admit to having the in-game Loremaster title, and can(incorrectly) recall minutia in lore and you're going the "get a life this isn't real" route? Tryharder tryhard.
"Again, because you don't really seem to read my posts: I. MAIN. HORDE."
I read it just fine, but I sincerely doubt someone who mains Horde is going to be an Alliance apologist, and you've fabricated parts of your argument to further that apologist stance, therefore I don't believe you.
"And guess what. I have 85s on both sides too. And the Loremaster title."
Good for you, I also have the silly title, but I wasn't referring to that, being a Loremaster isn't wearing an insulting ! tabard and having a title the same way having Jenkins doesn't make you Leeroy - it just means you completed an achievement.
"But hey. Keep downvoting my posts and convincing yourself I only like Varian because I wear Imperial plate in my free time if it makes you happy. "
Your rampant paranoia aside I will keep putting down your apologist fabrications and the apologist fabrications of Horde-minded players, both of you are rather ridiculous from my perspective.
Mar 21st 2012 3:18AM "Dhohohoho, that's cute. Calling it a retcon because that seems to bolster your argument."
Nope, it was a huge retcon, previously it was established lore before the comic decided to scrub away one of Varian's most significant misdeeds.
"We never knew the details of what happened between the Stonemasons and the House of Nobels. In the comic we found out that Onyxia engineered the dispute by mentally coercing both sides into becoming more greedily and unwilling to compromise."
We surely did, again, this was all established long before the comic, being I'm a Lorekeeper and was editing articles long before that crap came out I should know, before "loldragonsdidit" the nobles refused to PAY period and tossed the workers out, leading to revolts and attempts to coerce the leadership into betraying them - VanCleef refused.
"Not a retcon. Canon. Deal with it."
You have an extremely poor understanding of lore.
"Being "appalled" doesn't let Thrall off the hook here."
No, it would be the part where he was ignorant of it, not the part where he was apalled that lets him off the hook, Garrosh knew and let it continue, Thrall took steps to thwart it.
"He was Warchief at the time, meaning he has unlimited authority and power over the Horde. Guess what, with unlimited authority comes the unfortunate fact that ultimate responsibilty rests with same. Thrall is entirely at fault for what happened in Undercity during his reign."
Cool, the person who knew nothing of what another nation was doing is 100% responsible for what they did, awesome logic, high five.
"Actually the Kor'kron permit the experimentation to continue. There's even still people kept in cages. Go on down to the apothecarium and see. Rather strengthes Varian's position."
That's in-game, the lore ended those experiments, don't equate dev team laziness or lack of resources with Thrall being complicit, and you can stop shining Varian's boots at any point in this discussion.
"Varian didn't need to step in, genius, General Hawthorne already had the perpetrators who broke ranks arrested."
...No, he didn't, in fact the one who urged the General to perpetrate the act in the first place was his second in command, what happened is the troops didn't care to restrain themselves - and they went unpunished for it, even continuing to chase down the Tauren, to the point that many fled into dangerous oasis areas. The General's opinion was these things were "unfortunate" and he eventually sends you to interfere with the murder and looting.
"Yes, it did. If you're willing to use your brain. I realize this might be hard for some people. Major Samuelson was a twilight agent inside Stormwind Keep, and during the Highlands intro we find out he's manipulating SI:7."
No, we don't, we find out he's manipulating the city guard and various other localized elements of Stormwind's kingdom, we actually pair up with SI:7 to further investigate him.
"Who does Samuelson work for? The Black Bishop, a high-level Twilight agent in the cathedral."
Some dude, right.
"Who was the Black Bishop originally meant to be, and who did all members of the cult pay obey as Twilight Father?
...No, the Black Bishop is just an agent, the Twilight Father was cemented long before this quest was added and was always intended to be Benedictus, your fabrications don't work on a Lorekeeper, pal.
"I've barely said a word about Garrosh for this whole debate, are you even reading my posts? Or are you just so urgent to defend your video game leader that you'll scream anything at the "other side" you can think of to make yourself look better?"
You're attempting to elevate your leader above theirs by miscasting his deeds and mistakes as the machinations of others, even going so far as to embrace a blatant retcon in hopes of casting him in a positive light, I've already stated my opinion of each and have maxed characters on both sides, I recognize the flaws of each side - you, on the other hand, have got me beat on the urgent apologist platform.
"Take a chill pill."
Leave, you've lost the argument, be mature and move on.
Mar 20th 2012 4:45AM "Have you never heard of Onyxia? Have you never read the comic?"
Massive Retcon Warcraft Edition? Yeah, I have read that comic.
"Yeah, you'd almost think he just found out Thrall allowed humans to be caged and experimented on for the plague. Oh wait. HE DID."
Nope, Sylvanas, and he was appalled, and then he put in his personal guard to keep watch over the city after learning of her atrocities, Garrosh allowed what Thrall would not have - the new Forsaken. Now on the other hand Varian let the massacre of Taurajo go unpunished where the massacre in Stonetalon got someone thrown off a cliff by the Warchief himself, things aren't so black and white, are they?
"You do realize the implication behind the Alliance Twilight Highlands intro is that BENEDICTUS arranged that for the Twilight, don't you?"
...No such thing happened, that's a blatant lie, he had no hand in it, it was Varian attempting retribution after Thrall refused to act after the massacre of the druids, this was made crystal clear at least three times including the books, and I was there anyway, I did everything on both sides, the Twilight Highlands intro implied nothing of the sort.
You're desperate to play down Varian and attack Garrosh, the truth is they're both bad news and have shades of grey, although Varian may yet be redeemed and it appears Garrosh won't be.
Mar 19th 2012 9:28AM @Omegan01
Among their many faults, these two individuals, you're forgetting Varian is also the man who ordered a secret operation to capture and execute the former Warchief, an orc attempting to help the world, in the midst of a global crisis where his work was vital to defeating Deathwing and then covered up his malicious actions leaving the Alliance ignorant of what their king had done.
If you don't call that as blind, warlike, and provocative as Garrosh then you should rocket-jump out of the conversation, "railgun".
Mar 17th 2012 12:16PM Well ruin my day why don't you.
Feb 24th 2012 9:57PM I just couldn't get over the massive grind when I tried it, I don't like that approach with Free To Play, I like it when the choices are purely cosmetic or what have you.
Jan 14th 2012 10:37PM I have to admit the supposedly great multi-phase fight wasn't interesting until the end, I've been tanking for so long I'm really quite bored tanking bosses, I have a much stronger attraction to fights where there is no "boss" to tank or tanking the boss is just one slice of the pie. I want to fight his entire legion, I want his magic user to come down and try to smite the DPS in the midst of it, I want his rabid Dragon to come down and chase me around the map while they buckle him, and THEN I want to tank the boss some.
Looking at numbers, cooldowns, and moving the boss around, or their adds, it's just not exciting to me anymore, although it seems I am alone if majority opinion rules.
Dec 19th 2011 8:19PM Sure am, given I was banned by a dirtbag who goes around treating everyone like trash and acting like a dictator while the owner does nothing to stop it, the amount of abuse he dolls out keeps a lot of keen minds out of your forum - people like myself who don't tolerate that.
Dec 1st 2011 4:51PM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31P4DgkW9Ns#t=1m17s
Be very afraid.
Nov 21st 2011 9:28PM Don't mean to nitpick, but for a lore patch video I'd of gone with 4.2, the 4.1 patch is the "ToC" patch of this expansion in my opinion.
"The Alliance is now under heavy, heavy pressure, beaten back further than they've ever been before"
What? The Forsaken advance? I suppose, I don't exactly call having a fortress in shelling distance of Thunder Bluff and another in shelling distance of Orgrimmar and a foothold in the heart of Horde territory "beaten back", though.
They've been quite successful on Kalimdor, even as the Horde strengthens its own footholds close to the breast.