Dec 8th 2011 4:37AM I can't really think of a whole lot WoW has done to innovate to be honest. I think it has topped the charts at renovation, spit and polish, and sparkles. However, the innovation thing seems a bit of false truth. I think they have taken elements of other games and made them work in their game better than their competitors.
Anyone saying that other games release a shoddy product at release clearly have forgotten wow at release. That was a debacle for about a month or longer in some instances.
I will say I don't think any other game will reach numbers wow has. There are just too many other good and slightly different theme-park games coming out in the future. Wow will probably continue toose more players as these games come out. Doesn't make it a bad game. Just one that will slow to varying demands. Different strokes for different folks.
Dec 7th 2011 11:50PM The TOR numbers you can find are for pre-orders in the US only and don't include some of the pre-order types. So the number looks to be substantially more. I don't think it's double the number to make it anywhere 2mil. But close to 1.4/1.5 wouldn't be a surprise.
Jun 29th 2009 7:21AM Hello all,
I do not usually get caught up in these drama discussions, but I have been following this one quite closely due to the fact that I am a boxer myself. Now, I am a Mac boxer so that instantly cuts out the options for Keyclone or Pwnboxer for me, which I think can give me the opportunity to be at least a little objective. This is because neither one of these packages are available for Mac, and as a result left me really having to scour to and fro for solutions to my problems. Now to my point...after having read this piece and the bits and pieces I have been able to pick up over the internet on this D-B.com/Pwnboxer debate I have noticed many things.
on the D-B.com side:
-they really do offer a wide variety of things other than keyclone on their site. In fact keyclone gets equal voice on their wiki section along with; auto hot keys, innerspace, octopus, etc...
-seems to not really have much on the forums except usual; how do i, in arena, group setup, hey look what I did in naxx, what do you do when, etc..
-it is all free, no advertisements, no links except to vids (containing members accomplishments), and lots and lots of hardware discussions
-There is one link on the mainpage that allows you to directly download Keyclone.
on the Pwnboxer side:
-setup instructions for pwnboxer
-downloads section only for pwnboxer
-forums with a very large number of satisfied user testimony...all of them ''thank you pwnboxer''
-videos of how to use pwnboxer
-not really too much on other things other than pwnboxer unless I missed something.
now onto this whole thread; I have noticed both sides of the coin are fairly heated in their debates and their content, but let's take a look at the what's been said so far. Please, if you want the whole story go back and read the full post that the people made. I have just copied what I feel gives the gist of the point they are making.
I'm Svpernova09 from dual-boxing.com I'm an admin over there. I just wanted to say that the reason we don't allow Tim's software / discussion of his software, is because mousecloner was found to violate the WoW EULA. And that he keeps showing up under different names spamming our users with advertisements for his software. Dual-boxing.com does NOT make any software,
From what I've read about the whole fiasco, it seems like what's been done has been a reaction to what he's done. A mass PM advertisement on the dual-boxing.com site, not to mention reports of spoofing emails to further advertise the software. That would be why he was banned from the site, which is completely reasonable--It's against the forum rules. Solid ICE Technologies pays to advertise KeyClone on the dual-boxing.com site, and the company/program seems to be well-accepted by the community.
Drama, we all love it don't we? Any promotion of boxing in WoW is good, however because many feel it is questionable, the community has to be careful how that promotion is done. Tim created a previous software package that violated the Blizzard TOS/Eula and pretty much banned him from d-b.com. That choice was made to protect the community, plain and simple. You will not find any recent "okay" from Blizzard on any multi-boxing software, only the stance that 1 key press = 1 action. Regardless of the software you choose, you still have to follow the rules.
Bashing Svpernova because you feel he is marketing d-b.com makes no sense. Is there another boxing community out there? I think most know that it is the one place to go for help. There are many different software choices being discussed regularly, from free to yearly costs and done so by the rules of the community and in strict compliance of Blizzards TOS/Eula. Getting banned does no one any good.
It would be great if Tim's position changes and he is upfront and avoids the questionable tactics he uses to promote his software. It is great that he is creating a venue where people can watch multi-boxing and truly see the fun in it. I hope it continues to be clean.
>and now to the Pwnboxer peeps<
-johnathontroublesome, Lexi, Qot, Ez, RIchard Long, Nick, Tarpo (the people whom I saw posting most)
"Guys I just checked out the DualBoxing.com website and guess what I saw?
The moderator Key clone who sells his own multiboxing software on the DB website, the same person who is constantly spreading lies about Tim Sullivan and his new and very featureful PwnBoxer, just said this:"
"He is absolutely amazing and doing a very good job at answering everyone's questions. He is in no way advertising any of his products and only shows and talks about it when asked. I will continue to watch his trek to 80 and beyond as he's doing a great job :)"
"So to the multiboxing.tv live video broadcast of multiboxing, PLEASE KEEP UP THE WONDERFUL WORK! You have helped what appears like approaching ONE HUNDRED THOUSAND people in the last couple weeks."
Now these are just quotes I pulled out from sections that I think will boost my arguments, and are in no way perfect....cause well...I ain't perfect, maybe you are but I am not... :(
for the D-B.com people it seems that they feel wronged and from the things I have been following up on it seems that their arguments are true. He has been whole-sale advertising his product on a site which wants to remain advertisement free. if you have been visiting wowwiki recently you will notice his advertisements are pretty much all over the place In addition, I personally think that most of these comments here and his user testimonies in the positive are all just him and his friends/employees creating users and sounding almost as if they are deifying his work and his wonderful boxing ability/ interesting personality. I have no proof but they all sound frighteningly the same.
If you want more on the argument visit D-B.com to get their take on things. in the forums there are some links to the whole thing in a great deal more detail. Also, visit the pwnboxer homepage to see exactly what the layout is like as well.
My two cents wordy, long, and probably boring. However, you should look things up on your own, do not rely entirely on what is on this thread, and make your own decisions.