Sep 17th 2009 1:39PM Varian Wrynn doesn't care about the green man.
Aug 6th 2009 3:53AM Lol @ 14 year old boys who can't stop mentioning their peens.
Faction pride or not, nobody cares if you're "never going to play Alliance. Not happening."
Jul 15th 2009 11:45PM Do you deny that the RAS attacked the Alliance at the Wrathgate? Do you deny that RAS was part of the Horde? If not then the Horde attacked the Alliance at the Wrathgate.
Regardless of weather or not Thrall or Sylvannas knew, the fact is that the plague was developed under the blessings of the Horde. If you deny that then please explain why you get Orgrimmar reputation for helping develop the plague.
Whatever Thrall or Sylvannas know or don't know, or pretend not to know, or take great care not to know (Thrall often takes great care to avoid knowing certain unpleasant truths) doesn't change the fact the the Horde's super-weapon was used by a part of the Horde against the Alliance, while the Alliance and Horde were supposed to be allied.
Prevaricate all you like. Weather Thrall was complicit, incompetent or ignorant doesn't change the fact that the Horde attacked the Alliance at the Wrathgate.
That plague would never have been developed without the support and protection of Thrall. The only reason Undercity was never invaded before was that Thrall pledged his protection to Undercity, and had a peace agreement with the Alliance.
Illidan was never part of the Alliance. The Night-Elves only joined after the Third War. Are the Night-Elves responsible for Illidan’s actions? Of course they are. They took a calculated risk (which I personally believe was not so well-calculated given Tyrande’s and Malfurion’s relationships with him) and they miscalculated badly. Both in sparing his life to begin with and in releasing him ten millennia later. There are some who argue that Illidan’s actions in Outland were actually beneficial (since his activities were always anti-Burning Legion), but either way the Night-Elves do bear at least some responsibility for his actions, either good or bad.
The difference is that when people legitimately criticize the Night-Elves for their mistakes, they aren’t called racist.
Arthas Menethil was dead from the moment he touched Frostmourne. He hasn't had a soul since then. All his actions as a Death-Knight was merely the Lich king using his body. Do you know who the Lich King is? The orc Shaman Nerzhul who created the Horde.
That's right, the Horde was founded by the Lich King. They then proceeded to accept the Forsaken, former members of the Scourge. Said Forsaken then proceed to attack the Alliance while the Alliance is fighting the Lich King. No - nothing suspicious about that.
Did the orcs loose their souls when they drank demon-blood? No - they retained their souls and remained fully alive. The architect of the Second War, Orgrim Doomhammer, never even drank the demon blood. Comparing the orcs who knowingly and willingly drank the demon blood, with Prince Arthas is disingenuous.
And what makes you think the Horde doesn’t hate humans for Arthas (conveniently forgetting that he’s just the Avatar of their own shaman and founder Nerzhul)? Sylvannas commissioned the plague with the intention of using it against humans. She explicitly states that she wants to wipe them out because of Arthas.
She sounds like the racist one to me. Or are you going to say that she isn’t part of the Horde either?
But no – it’s Varian who is racist.
I was addressing the OP who called Varian racist. If you don’t have a stated opinion on that then fine, but since you were arguing the point I had no way of knowing that you weren’t agreeing with the racist opinion.
Whatever opinions the Forsaken are justified in holding has no bearing on my point, which is whether or not Varian is racist. I don’t agree with what you said, but I’m not going to go into that as I don’t feel it’s relevant.
“All I am stating is that Varian is a bad leader because revenge is never a good excuse when your decisions and actions effect the lives of so many in your charge.”
Who said anything about revenge? Varian is doing what’s best for his people. Trusting the Horde leads to things like the Forsaken’s human experimentation and the Wrathgate.
There are only two options. War or Peace. Mistrust the Horde or trust the Horde. Varian’s way or the Wrathgate. Are you saying the Wrathgate is what’s best for Varian’s people? Because that’s what happened when he co-operated with the Horde.
Are you saying that the Forsaken’s human experimentation is good for Varian’s people? Because that’s what happened when he had peace with the Horde.
Revenge has nothing to do with it. He’s just showing good leadership. The Wrathgate and Undercity showed him the result of peace and trust. If he did not learn from his mistake, that would make him a fool.
But Horde apologists call him a fool because he actually learns from his past mistakes and avoids them. Go figure.
Jul 15th 2009 9:16PM Whatever Medivh promised or did not promise Guldan in no way absolves the orcs for what they did.
"And so began our people's history in this world of Azeroth. We thundered out of the Portal like death incarnate, a torrent of blood-mad killers intent on slaughter. It is little wonder the humans hate us so, many of them even now." - Thrall.
For human who survived the First and Second Wars, hating orcs is natural and not racist at all.
Of course the Horde sheltered the RAS. It makes no difference who else they sheltered. They may have sheltered a million other groups; doesn't lessen the fact that they sheltered the RAS. And of course the Horde had knowledge of what was going to happen at the Wrathgate. The RAS is part of the Horde. The RAS had knowledge of what they planned to do.
The fact that Saurang Jr ( who was killed by Arthas BTW not the RAS) or other Horde troops were killed at the Wrathgate doesn't change the fact that the Horde killed Bolvar and Alliance troops.
Just because they killed their own soldiers doesn't have any bearing on the fact that they killed Alliance soldiers including Bolvar.
You may have been referring to the Broken Front. I however was referring to the Wrathgate when I spoke of how the Horde killed Alliance troops who were supposed to be their allies. Then you replied with your invalid argument of how Varian had already declared war.
Your argument is still invalid. The Horde killed Alliance troops who were supposed to be their allies at the Wrathgate - which happened before UC when Varian declared war.
The Horde cannot kill Putress as Varian already killed him. He would have been killed long ago if Thrall hadn't protected him.
Since the RAS is part of the Horde - their actions certainly reflect on the Horde. Trying to argue otherwise is reminiscent of the pathetic "The Devil made me do it" arguments that Horde apologists use excuse the genocidal behavior of the orcs during the First and Second Wars.
Orcs have done enough to humans to make hating them perfectly reasonable. Calling humans including Varian racist for hating them is like calling them racist for hating the Legion or the Scourge.
So far the orcs have destroyed as many human nations as the Scourge, and one less than the Legion. "The Devil made me do it" and "I was on crack" is a pathetic attempt to evade responsibility.
"It is easy to understand why so many of my contemporaries prefer to let this history die. Let it sink into oblivion silently, slipping beneath the waters of time until the surface of the lake is once again unruffled, and no one knows of the shame lurking in the depths. I, too, feel that shame, though I was not alive when this occurred. I see it in Drek'Thar'sface as he recounts his part of the tale in a shaking voice. I saw the weight of it on Orgrim Doomhammer. Grom Helbcream, friend and traitor and friend again, was ravaged by it.
But to pretend it did not exist is to forget how dreadful the impact was. To make ourselves into victims, rather than claiming our participation in our own destruction. We chose this path, we ores. We chose it right up until it was too late to turn back. And having made that choice once, we can, with the knowledge that we have of the end of that dark and shameful road, choose not to take it." -Thrall
They had a choice. And we know what they chose. Genocide. The Path of Glory is paved with the bones of slaughtered Draenei. Saurfang, who Horde players love has admitted to killing Draenei children. And he implies he killed Orc children as well. The Horde burst out of the Portal unprovoked, killed Varian's father by treachery, burned down Stormwind and tried to kill every single human for the crime of - being human.
But Varian is the racist. Right.
Jul 15th 2009 4:03PM Yeah - he hates the people who murdered his father, burned down his home, murdered his father-figure, sheltered the RAS, attacked him when he went for peace talks, killed one of his best friends and murdered many of his soldiers who were supposed to be their allies.
What a racist.
Jul 11th 2009 4:06AM @ Keleron:
I agree that every character with a 310% mount should have all their 280% mounts increased. But this is better than nothing. Maybe that's a direction Blizzard will go eventually, infact for those hoping that Blizzard would go in that direction, including myself, could take this as a good sign.
Also remember that a Druid's SFF does not benefit from Crusader's Aura. A 280% mount with Crusader's Aura goes at 356%.
If you have a Paladin in your group, it's faster to have a regular 280% mount that a 310% SFF.
I understand where you're coming from. But Blizzard cannot possibly be expected to know what new features they're going to add in the future. Who knows when this descision was taken or even when the idea was first entertained?
I certainly understand why you feel you took a decision with incomplete information, but I don't see how Blizz could possibly have done better.
Also - I don't have a Druid so perhaps I have no idea what I'm talking about.