Jan 9th 2010 3:25PM What Rossi said about ArP is the true culprit. I am a prot and I will say that the SS nerf seems very imbalanced because it is our burst threat gen and our major dps in PvE. When raid dps is hitting for 7 or 8k at the drop of the fight, I use SS's to keep threat above them. What they are doing is limiting the threat we can do, straight across, not even counting our dps. When heroic Festergut becomes available and the fight tolerances become even tighter, you will want the tank that helps take the boss down faster. That won't be warrior tanks. I'm not saying we can't be in a raid that does take them down but that others contribute more. Already, me and our bear tank switch off so that he gets the most downtime on Festergut so that he can go kitty and do good dps.
For the WB nerf, that again is still a PvE nerf. The game is still more than boss fights or arenas. There is still questing, 5 mans, trash in raid instances, etc. In many of those, I get snared or rooted and that doesn't even count Faction Champs in ToC/ToGC. Prot warriors use charge to get rage in many of those instances. Now we won't. And on top of that, we have only one ranged attack with a 1 minute CD. We have to cross distance to affect mobs. All other tanks have tools to either get out of roots/snares or attack from range or both.
As for PvP, both are a nerf that wasn't needed. We are not OP. In BC when prot warrior's complained that they couldn't win duels, a 1v1, they were told that PvP is not about 1v1, that it didn't matter cause if you had a pocket healer, you would do well. So now when we actually have a 50/50 chance in a 1v1, we are called OP. That means if we aren't a guaranteed killed, that we should nerfed. Seems pretty one-sided to me.
Mar 19th 2009 12:04PM Simple enough, go back to #5, this is a game and there are usually rewards and its not gear at the highest level. What you propose is a socialist system. Which I agree is better for their bottom line in the short run, but in the long run it fails because those compete at its highest level will leave when something better comes along. Their effort is what drives the group as a whole. Again, this is a virtual world of millions of human beings. The human condition still applies. And for all those who want to cry its unfair, welcome to life.
Mar 18th 2009 2:20AM The analogy is an example to show that things are created that have value that people would want but still have blocks. That doesn't take away from what it is or that not everyone gets to have it. But, for real if you get the idea then that's the point. Don't get caught up in the example.
Mar 17th 2009 2:38PM Well,
I read the article and posts. This is my opinion and only my opinion:
1) I have stated many times and posted in these forums that "hard mode" and achievements are the new progression.
2) I disagree with their premise that everyone should see all the content cause its all so cool. Ferrari's are made and look great, drive great and are desired by many. Why aren't they priced down so everyone can have one. There are many things in RL that have a block (money being most common) to acquire them or even get the chance to acquire them. It usually takes some type of achievement (time commitment) to have access. Your $15 doesn't give you the right to see the content but gives you the opportunity to see the content. Whether you put the effort in to accomplish that is up to you. Lowering the threshold of the commitment is a collectivist idea; i.e., everyone needs to give over to the good of the group.
3) I agree that their need to be more 10 man instances, but I disagree that the 10 and 25 man raids should be the same instance. If there was separation then you would feel that you accomplished something different. Therefore, it would mean that those that put in effort for 25 mans would be able to do something different from those who do 10 mans. This in IMHO would be huge.
4) Progression raiding isn't about gear. Those that do it, usually do it to take down the boss. Think about it. You walk into a place that you've never been to take down bosses you've never fought. The gear you have is from instances that are from a lower level. The top guilds didn't farm Naxx 10 or Naxx 25 to take out the content. They did it in Tier 6/Sunwell stuff. Yes, afterward you have gear which makes the fight easier but that's not why you took down the boss. If it is, you should wait on the side for farm status. It is the thrill of victory that sustains, the thrill that you as a team defeated the boss that gives satisfaction.
5) This is a game. You are in competition against the programmers (ok, sorta). There is nothing wrong of wanting to succeed and be the best when you are competing. The term elitist, etc gets thrown around a lot. People trying to be the best they can isn't a bad thing. Yes, a lot of crowing goes on but that just goes with the territory. Show me any other type of competitive game in RL where that isn't true. Most that throw the term elitist around are those in the wanting. I never discourage excellence. Competition isn't a socialistic endeavor. They don't call life a rat race for nothing. Do you really think in a virtual world of millions of people that the same dimensions don't exist?
6) Lastly, the problem I see is a lack of mid-game. All the focus is on endgame raiding (or Arenas). Why? There are 80 levels and yet the only thing that counts is raiding at level 80. The game has been pushed to play at level 80 only. There is no development by Blizz for things to do between level 1-79 except level as fast as you can to 80. Therefore, they have created their own QQ factory. Everyone complaining that endgame level 80 raiding is the everything and its not fair that they don't have what everyone else has.
Jan 9th 2009 5:07PM I am a DW spec'd prot warrior. This will nerf not only hut my tps but my dps. If you look at all the other tank classes they have good dps, DW was our way of putting up similar numbers. This will make prot warrior dps inferior. Also, right now to compete with other class' tps we need to use vigilance + the DW spec. I'm not saying that we don't produce enough threat for the current content but that for comparative numbers with other classes DW & Vigilance put us in the same ballpark. This doesn't even include the benefit that DW gave to AoE tanking for prot warriors. I think it will directly affect prot warriors if not in the early content by the time we reach Uldauar. Oh, yeah, and I don't think it's necessary.
Oct 30th 2008 12:58PM All those that think its ok to nerf raid instances so others can see content are the ppl that would use cheat codes. How about this, at level 80 go back into BT and raid it. It should be easy. You don't need to nerf the instances to see the content. So what if you can't do it now. You can still do it later. Our guild runs retro-raids just for that purpose. I've pulled ppl through MC, BWL, AQ40, and Naxx before it left. In fact, these raids fill up faster than the 25 mans. This is just Blizz's way to make the content worthless so you buy Wrath. QQ is killing this game.
Sep 6th 2008 2:18PM A clarification for the post below. Threat is a control feature for PvE. And, I'll admit that part is nice. My point is that as a tank they had to address that. Warrior threat in TBC was lacking until you had the gear in BT and above, and that was with BoS. When I talk about tools to control mobs, I mean stuns, knockbacks, knockdowns, slows, rooting, etc. The tools I talk about can be used in PvE and PvP. They aren't reliant on only on part of the game.
Sep 6th 2008 1:58PM Hmm.
A roller-coaster maybe, a roulette wheel seems more like. We're a bear, we're a pally, we're a bear, we're a pally. We keep being thrown abilities that mirror these two classes more and more. No, they're not the same but similar. Can't developers come up with something more original for warriors? As Rossi's last blog stated, we have been relegated to dps as our big new shinny uniqueness for WotLK.
Don't get me wrong, I like seeing that part of warriors being addressed. Fury and Arms need buffs imho opinion. They had TG right then nerfed it. Arms, needs definite help. You think they can come up with something besides MS as the 'come all, be all" talent in the tree? But, its not those trees they're making a huge dps boost to its protection.
Really, if I wanted to dps and tank, I'd of rolled a bear. I like bears and think they fill this roll well. And I would say that blizz's choice of dps for prot is the best for them, but not for us. They had to address prot's rage starvation issue and threat issues especially since they got rid of BoS. The damage done covers both of these and if they sell it to those that only look at dps #'s they don't have to do much for prot besides that. But for those of us that love the idea of controlling mobs, this xpac is very limited.
I don't want to be skeptical but with past history how can I not. How come they took out the boost to the already nerfed SW so now its only 50% again. How come SB is only 30%. If a ton of our prot talents are based on blocking, how is nerfing our to block% a benefit? Did they treat the other class that uses shields like that? And if not, how do they make up the mitigation and/or avoidance. I mean look at the gear, there is no avoidance on all of it. So are we only relegated to avoidance from talents? Some questions need to answered and we get nothing but look at your dps #'s!
We've had more taken away to tank then given except for threat. Shockwave is the only new talent that addresses control. And there are no new mitigation talents to be had. So though I look forward to trying the new prot spec, I'll bet DK's play better, have more unique talents, dps harder, and have better survivability. And, because all 4 tanks will be able to MT, will be the replacement tank of warriors. We didn't need a new tank class. We need more class diversification.
Sep 5th 2008 7:41PM So,
We're essentially.....bears. I mean bear tanks have always had decent dps and can MT now in live. They will if they want to MT in WotLK need to change some of their dps talents, but supposedly that's only less than those that put them on par with the other(misguided) notion that all dps should be equal. I have alts. If I really wanted to be more versatile in a certain aspect or change what I do, I play them.
Hmm. I'm sorry to say but this is dull. I wanted new abilities for prot. I like controlling mobs. Really, if I wanted to dps and tank, I'd have rolled a bear or maybe in Warth a DK. Why can't they take what they have now and make the abilities more exciting. A TC that not only does a 20% attack speed debuff but also applies a 50% slowing effect. Or take Shockwave and make a true AoE and make it do a knockdown. Make it start from the warrior and effectively move out in a circle. I'd love more spell or magic dmg mitigation abilities.
I don't mind other classes having a lot of the same things warriors do but would like something unique. I see Paladins as natural defenders. They're there to save ppl. Bears are similar but one with nature and a have ferocity. Warriors are aggressive. We throw ourselves into battle, even protection warriors. We don't sit behind. We dodge fireballs and arrows, throw a block and engage. We dodge through the dragons legs we climb on its back trying to find the weak link in the armor. We get thrown off, and come back. How come they can't implement stuff like that? How come our unique talent in WotLK is to dps like bears?
Sep 3rd 2008 12:44PM Either you don't MT or you have a dislike for Prot warriors. All classes that tank atm are viable MT's. Anyone making the statement that they aren't, don't know what they're talking about. I lead raids and have at least one of each tank in my runs. Each atm is unique and having all in raids is important.
The only thing that made Prot warriors very unique is the reliable ability to push crushing blows off the table. Even without the Xpac elimanting this alone would make us not as advantageous as the other two classes. We do have atm have a few other things as mentioned in the article as that others do not, BUT those talents don't stop the other two classes from being a MT now.
In Beta, they have given other two classes talents that prot warriors have had but made them even better. A SS(paladins) that cannot be block, parried, or dodged because its considered a holy dmg spell besides that it ignores all armor. And whose mechanics are based as ours are on STR and SBV but also get a spell dmg component based on their stamina. So stacking stam gives them more threat. Or a LS (ferals) that not only gives a 30% hp but also is 12 secs of not being able to be stunned or CC'd in anyway.
And if you read the Beta, all prot warriors are asking to do is give us similar tools. Did they take the AoE tanking title away from Paladins; no. Or the flexibility to ferals; no. So yes we can all MT but that was all a Prot warrior was brought for. Now, why bring one when your MT can AoE tank also. Frees up a slot for another dps'r and allows for quicker kills. Again they only made parity in the MT function not all the other tanking functions and this doesn't even include the unique buffs that those classes provide that prot warriors just don't.
And one last thing, don't give the skill argument BS. That now skill ppl will get a raid slot. Skilled ppl always find a way to rise to the top and get spots to raid. Funny thing, skilled ppl tend to figure out who the other skilled ppl are and group with them. And this won't get rid of min/maxing. That's so sophomoric an argument that it doesn't even deserve a response. Number crunchers will find the best specs for the raids coming and those that fill those numbers will be invited. Stop hating prot warriors.