Apr 4th 2012 7:06PM If only rogues had some way of pinning people down so they could wail on them...
But in any case, the agility proc isn't the real issue, it's the up-front burst.
As for your second point, the daggers are faster to make than Taregosa. Yes, there will ultimately be fewer, since you can't do multiples at once, but on the other hand, there are fewer rogues. A higher percentage of rogues will have a legendary as compared to the population of casters that could get the staff.
In any case, both legendaries are broken. The daggers are just more so.
Apr 4th 2012 7:01PM So, Kuro, what you seem to be saying is that, since about .0001 % of PvP takes place in those sorts of tourneys, the vast majority of folks should have no expectation of a fair chance?
Like I posted earlier, I don't want to hear QQ about premades, or an opponent having more conquest gear, or more healers. Players have the tools to fix all those problems by themselves. But it is not right to build a massive advantage into one particular spec, and offer no remedy. Legendaries by their nature are unbalancing. That's the whole point of them: they are great because they throw the regular rules for balance out the window. I'm not sure why Blizzard thinks the game needs them, but when they were incredibly rare it wasn't that much of a problem.
But now legendaries are readily available to anyone who can do the grind. They are essentially a new tier of gear, but one that is only made available to a chosen few specs per content patch. This is inherently unfair in PvE, and leads to weirdness like casters being balanced around having a legendary (so it sux if you don't). And it is even worse in PvP, where some players take the competition quite seriously. Given that Blizzard supports competitive PvP with rankings and rewards, it is profoundly odd that they would throw a monkey wrench like these daggers into the works. Of course players are going to be upset when they lose ranking to a player because Blizzard has given him a level of gear that they can't get. Of course BGers are going to be upset when they get ganked in a stunlock in spite of working their butts off to get their resilience to 4900.
Again, this isn't the fault of rogues. Players of any class would do the same thing. It doesn't make them bad people. But I personally feel that allowing an extra tier of gear to select specs is just bad for the game. It is bad now, and it will be bad next tier or so when monks are using a legendary staff to destroy rogues and take all their raid spots.
Apr 4th 2012 3:04PM Blizzard: "Okay, so here are the weapons you're going to use for your fight to the finish. For you 9 guys, we've got these really nice spears. Note the craftsmanship -- that's quality work there!"
9 Random Guys: "Ummm...okay. Well, that seems pretty even..."
Blizzard: "And for this last fellow, we have a 30 round automatic pistol."
9 Random Guys: "Hey, wait! That's not right..."
10th Guy: "Yup, totally fair. Whine moar, noobz. When I kill you it will be because of my uber leet skillz."
Apr 4th 2012 2:55PM ...except it is true. These daggers do completely trivialize pvp for rogues.
Sub rogues already had the best pvp toolkit in the game. They have everything: control, defence, damage, healing, resets. Now they also have absolutely retarded burst.
My favorite spec, ret, has retarded burst, too, but only when cds are up, and it's all dispellable. And we have limited control, and are easy to kite. Warlocks have awesome control, but don't burst very well. And so on. With the exception of Frost mages, who are almost as OP as sub rogues (before the daggers), most specs have strengths and weaknesses. Which is not to say that some aren't better for pvp, but for the most part, the differences are reasonable. A skilled player always has a shot.
A bad sub rogue with those daggers is going to win most encounters. It's as easy as a stunlock. A good rogue is playing a different game than everyone else. You're getting the game handed to you on easy mode. It's great fun for the rogues (thus this article) but it's not fun or fair for anyone else.
You can argue all you want that giving a weapon this powerful to only one class is fair and balanced, but everyone knows it's BS. And so do you.
Apr 4th 2012 2:43PM "...rogue alt gets orange daggers on Saturday..."
This is the second part of the equation. Not only are the daggers very OP, but they are the easiest legendaries to attain yet. And that's saying something, after Taregosa.
I don't think legendaries should be in the game, period. But if they have to be in the game, I sure as shit don't think they should be as easy to attain as the last two, arguably three.
Apr 4th 2012 12:38PM You don't pvp if you think sub rogues are a glass cannon. Sub rogues have some of the best survivability and reset tricks in the game.
An arcane mage in pvp is a glass cannon. A sub rogue with the legendaries has everything: control, survivability, incredible burst, sustained dps, and an escape if all else fails.
Apr 4th 2012 12:36PM @ Cephas,
I'm not blaming the players. I'm blaming Blizzard for letting this happen and now allowing it to continue. I'm sure rogues are having a blast; I loved playing ret for a few weeks after 3.0. But it kinda sucks for the other 90% of players, no?
Apr 4th 2012 12:32PM @Bumblebee
What are you talking about? I think it's unfair because giving one class a huge gear advantage is the definition of unfair. It's like letting one sprinter start a second before the rest. Yes, the others *could* theoretically overcome that difference, but it you've kind of stacked the odds, haven't you? You can be as skilled as you want, but given equal skill, the side that is given better gear is going to win. Except those daggers are so ridiculous that rogues don't need anything like equal skill to win with them.
And suggesting that sub rogues aren't suited for team play is...I don't even know where to begin. Just go look at what is happening to arena rankings right now.
Apr 4th 2012 12:27PM @Aylie,
No it's not the same because in those situations one side doesn't have a huge, unanswerable advantage built into the game. Don't like running into a premade? Build your own. Don't like being outgeared? Grind out your own -- you can get top level gear just by running regular bgs or even doing heroic dungeons and converting valour to conquest points. Don't like being out-legendaried? Too bad. You lose.
And you are being completely facetious when you suggest that there are other weapons that are even remotely on par with these. At least be honest about how stupid OP these daggers are.