Jun 1st 2010 2:32AM I love tanking. I love warrior tanking especially. I'm not getting their attention by casting holy spells at them, I'm running at them and screaming in their face. The feeling of power is great.
BUT. It's that feeling of power as a tank that makes people say things like "The tank is the most important person during a raid encounter." I even notice when I tank, that it becomes easy to take others for granted. I'm hitting things, their health is dropping. It almost feels like you're soloing. But instances come in groups for a reason. Without any part, the group falls apart. I want to see how well you "control things" with an oom healer and an enrage timer.
To be honest, I think ranged dps are in the best position to appreciate what happens in a dungeon. They're not just watching health bars and they don't have some giant ogre in their face--they're seeing the whole thing and realizing that everyone is doing something. Obviously a lot only watch the recount in the corner, but the fact remains that dps have the best opportunity to NOT be tunnel-visioned.
As much as dps are prone to recount syndrome, tanks are prone to diva syndrome.
"If you'd rather hide in the back of the room and light things on fire and turn invisible when things go bad then keep leveling that mage. " I realize you're being facetious, but come on. And "lets face it, dps are too afraid to control important things like kill order. " Dps don't decide kill order because dps don't pull! You want dps to be "braver" and start deciding who gets attacked first?
I like instances better than pvp because I like working as a team to achieve a common goal. That's not nearly as fun when someone has to constantly remind you that just because he gets shorter queues, you're just "meat in the room".
Jun 1st 2010 2:22AM I'm mainly just trying to present that every member has a responsibility. And certainly there are more bad dps-ers than bad tanks, because there's more of them in general, and I'll definitely admit that dpsing is easier. But I think the number of bad dps players is causing people to think that only dps are bad. If something goes wrong in a dungeon, maybe, just maybe, it wasn't the dps' fault. That's just up to individual situations to figure out.
May 31st 2010 11:39PM My main is a mage, but I've got a warrior tank almost to 80. I certainly appreciate what tanks go through to keep aggro, but there is a line to draw with these kinds of attitudes. Most of the tanks I've met who say this kind of thing, are also the tanks who let an add beat on the healer for the entire fight.
The fact is, a group is a team. Everyone has to do their part. We say, "The DPS' job isn't to dps, it's to stay alive," but that's not true. A Dead dps is no dps, yes, but a living dps that can't dps b/c of a bad tank is just as useless. I've heard countless tanks say, "It's not my job to taunt." Taunt is a key tanking spell which for warriors and pallys at least, is on an 8-SECOND COOLDOWN! How is that not your job?
So whose responsibility is it that the tank keep aggro? The tank and the dps together. If either doesn't do their job right, things go wrong.
And hey, if it's not your job to taunt, then I guess I don't have to counterspell that guy. Healer...you can't look over at a second health bar to toss me a topoff after that big aoe? I guess I can't be bothered to watch health bars and toss up a decurse. Exceptional players are the ones who go above and beyond what "their job" is to do. So if I, as dps, run into a bad tank, I'll just adjust my playstyle accordingly. As a tank, I'll do the same thing.
May 29th 2010 12:26PM First time I leveled in Duskwood, find a cool path up into the mountains...ooh look a big portal HOLY CRAP IT'S A DRAGON.
Best actual creepout? I was doing the quest in Icecrown where you jump in the robot up the sides of a mountain. The game bugged and I fell through the mountain...into the Saronite mines. Of all places to fall through the world, into a mine full of crazed miners haunted by the blood of an Old One. Really, I like anything Lovecraftian in the game. I haven't done Ulduar, but just listening to the Yogg-Saron audio on Youtube--hearing Sara scream in terror and then hearing her voice slowly change to Yogg's....*shudder*
Jan 7th 2010 2:52PM Oh, and on the issue of "I've finished off a boss after all the dps were dead". I've finished off a boss after the tank and healer were dead...and I'm a mage. I just had to kill it before it turned around. This isn't to brag...obviously it was already at low health. But...the fact that a tank can finish off a boss doesn't say much...if its health is low a healer could do that.
Jan 7th 2010 2:48PM Ok, if you're going to compare who's the most important, you have to consider that you are the right gear for that instance. If I'm overgeared enough I can *solo* an instance...that's not the point. If you're at the gear level...
NO ONE is most important. Period. Tank dies without a healer. Healer and DPS die without a tank. And yes, Healers and Tanks die without enough dps. The fact that there are three of them doesn't make them less important. Properly geared for an instance, if a tank and healer try it alone, the healer will go OOM on the first five-minute trash pull.
As for healers being unsung heroes, yes, it's true. But that depends on who you're with. I've seen very egotistical healers, tanks, AND dps. And in my experience, if something goes wrong, they say it's the dps' fault. Almost all the time.
The other day I and my ele shaman friend dps'd H Gundrak. The shaman was putting out around 1600-2000 dps--he's still getting geared up. But he kept pulling the tank's main target off...and keeping it for about 8 seconds. The tank didn't bother to taunt and couldn't compete with 1600 dps with Righteous Fury up? But who did the healer blame? The dps. In his kindest voice the healer started spouting off all of those cliches like "dead dps is no dps" and "your job as dps is to stay alive". These are true, but not completely true.
Is the dps' job to stay alive? Yes. But his job is also to dps. If he didn't, the group would suffer. In the same way that a healer's ultimate job is to keep himself alive, since dead heals is no heals. But if he spent the whole time healing himself instead of the tank? Wipe.
And dps'ing is not always easy. I play an arcane mage. We have a rotation to keep up or our dps will drop significantly. That's not being a recount whore. That's wanting to do my job. Meanwhile, I have to try and keep sheep up when the tank wants it. I have to buff just like any healer. And *I* am the one expected to interrupt with my 30-second cooldown counterspell, rather than the tank or melee with their much shorter CDs. I am the one expected to decurse, not the resto shaman who is already looking at people's health bars.
I love playing dps. And I'll admit, there's less pressure. But please, understand that every group member is important. Maybe in your experience, dps are the ones standing in the fire. But stupid players doesn't change the importance of a role. I had a healer in H UK who repeatedly let the tank die on Ingvar because he was casting during the interrupt. He told me he had to cast and get spell-locked or the tank would die. He said he had played a priest, so he knew healing and I didn't. Only thing was...he was playing a druid. A druid healer can't keep a tank up for three seconds with instant casts and HOTs? And you know this because you've played a priest??
Fact is, a good healer/tank/dps is one who is concerned with the group as a whole, not just his role. Tanks tell me it's "not their job" to taunt. Like, the button is useless to them. Healers say it's "not their job" to heal dps. Why every healer has *some* type of multi-heal is lost to them. But dps? It's our job to dps, help heal, interrupt, CC, decurse, cleanse, everything. But groups go well when *everyone* does *everything* they have to keep the group alive and make the enemies die. Every member is important, everyone has a role to fill, and a d-bag in ANY of these roles can make a dungeon miserable.