Jun 4th 2011 1:16PM @Tom
You're right. I let that "naive assumption" and "healer mana doesn't matter" assertion annoy me more than it should have." I don't assume stuff. I make sure I have numbers to back it up. I'd love to find out that I'm wrong and this is a buff, but nothing I've seen suggests that it's the case.
That overhealing could have happened at any point in the fight. If there was a lot of overhealing done in phase 1 and/or phase 2, it will still count in the end.
You keep mentioning 25 mans. Maybe this is more useful for 25 man than it is for 10 man. I will grant that's possible. My guild is 10 man only and we're not at heroic Nef yet, though we hope to get there soon.
Thank you for posting the parses. Sadly, the 10 man Nef fight showed as no longer available. However, looking at the 25 man regular parses, I see where your assertion of massive overhealing numbers has its basis. Every single one of your healers has 10 to 25 percent more overhealing than my top overhealer. So for your group, it may be the case, for my group it is not.
In light of this, I fully understand why you'd rather have the potential burst mitigation version of Holy Shield. In my 10 man group, where healer mana still matters, give me the constant extra mitigation over the burst. I've got other CD's that I can blow, including one of my trinkets.
Jun 3rd 2011 11:47PM It's very convenient to your argument to say that total damage reduced doesn't mean anything anymore, yet somehow you can look at the total overhealing percentage without any clue as to when that overhealing occurred and think that it adds credence to your assertion. Sorry, you don't get to have it both ways.
Bravo to your 10 man alt group. Got parses? Would love to see how you did it. Obviously, there's something to be learned. We're 5/13 heroic as well, but there's always room for improvement.
By the way, in Nefarian 10 man, it's 6 adds. In the last parse, the average hit from them landed for 4500 damage. Unfortunately, that doesn't tell me how much damage they hit for at high energy and how much they were hitting just before resetting. So let's go with your max number of 25k hits each, which if all 6 hit would be 150k. I am going to assume that you've taken armor into account but not blocking. While I'm well over 50 percent block rating, let's assume that exactly 50 percent of those top end hits get blocked. Current Holy Shield means that 30000 is mitigated. New Holy Shield means 37500 gets mitigated.
7500? This is your idea of a life saving CD? Sorry, no. Even if my RNG sucked, relatively speaking, and I blocked all 6 at that moment instead of dodging and/or parrying, it would only go up to 15,000 at the time of the electrocute. Your argument still doesn't hold water.
Jun 3rd 2011 6:51PM Let me get this straight......I don't need HS before the electrocute because I'm going to be having so much overhealing that it'll be worthless. If that's the case, then I sure as heck wouldn't need it during the electrocute, because, by your reckoning, there's absolutely no danger of dying to electrocute as I'll have glyphed DP to take off a huge amount of the damage while being near full health. Right? Right???
Maybe in your 25 man supergroup healer mana doesn't matter any longer. I run in a 10 man group and I can assure you that it still does. That's not a naive assumption, that's a fact.
As for overhealing, from our latest Nefarian kill, the numbers were as follows:
Holy Pally: 26% Overhealing
Shaman: 25% Overhealing
Disc Priest: 15% Overhealing
And for the record, the Disc Priest was the one following me around with the adds.
Jun 3rd 2011 6:02PM Correction:
"A pally tank on the adds better be pressing HS every time it's available (as long as the adds are active) or they are simply taking extra damage that could be available for those spikes."
"A pally tank on the adds better be pressing HS every time it's available (as long as the adds are active) or they are simply taking extra damage requiring healer mana that could be available for those spikes."
Jun 3rd 2011 5:57PM Matt,
If you're suggesting that a tank should wait for Electrocutes while tanking Nef's adds for hitting the new HS (in addition to glyphed DP), I know a number of healers who would like to have a word with you. Heck, I know a few tanks, including myself, who'd like to have a word with you. Because that makes no sense whatsoever.
If there is ever a time where healer mana is likely to be at a premium, it is going to be in that final phase. Taking extra unnecessary damage at *any* point of that phase is bad. A pally tank on the adds better be pressing HS every time it's available (as long as the adds are active) or they are simply taking extra damage that could be available for those spikes. The glyphed DP keeps the spike from being catastrophic. WoG helps in recovering.
Count me in with those who consider a "cooldown" that requires something else to happen (namely a block) to be nothing of the sort. If it increased block chance along with block value for those 20 seconds, maybe I'd buy it. But now? Not so much.
Feb 21st 2011 2:20PM Scott, I don't believe the issue the officer has is one making promises that he could not keep, but rather of failing to set expectations. The letter reads as though the groups that existed in Wrath were a bit fluid and a set roster for either of them did not come about until Cata.
What should have happened, before Cata even dropped, was expectations should had been set for leveling and then gearing to raid. If the "core" raiders had no reason to believe they'd be left behind for failing to be among the first geared for raiding, they can't be blamed for taking it a bit slower.
I also disagree with the notion that it is harder to setup multiple 10 man groups rather than one 25 man. My guild went from one 25 man to four 10 man groups with a fifth 10 man in progress. The transition has been nearly seamless and all four groups are enjoying progression, though not at the same pace. The key is that we set expectations beforehand, so there were no surprises. And then we made sure to keep lines of communication open between groups to keep that sense of guild unity together.
Doing things in this manner allowed us to have more people raiding regularly in our guild than ever as well as have a larger number of more casual members who could fill a spot in a pinch. The casual members (relatively speaking as we are, first and foremost, a raiding guild) know that if they do want to fill in, they need to be raid ready. No excuses.
May 24th 2010 2:08PM Dawn,
As someone who has four tank toons, one of each type, I think I love you.
I know I love this article. One thing I'd like to point out that one other person I saw had touched on as well is in regards to how pally tanks get back their mana. Spiritual Attunement isn't really the icing on a pally's mana regen, at least not in raids. It's the cake. However, even specced 2/2 in it, a well geared pally tank is going to have troubles taking enough damage for it to be effective in most heroics. This situation can easily be exacerbated in heroics by priest shielding.
The other side of the mana-regen toolkit is the combination of Divine Plea and Guarded by the Light, which you mentioned, along with Blessing of Sanctuary which returns mana every time they dodge, parry, or block. They can also use Seal of Wisdom if their threat gen is sufficient. They should be using Judgement of Wisdom in heroics.
However, in order to keep Divine Plea up as well as to take advantage of the rest of the latter mana regen toolkit, they need to keep pulling. Not only do they need to keep pulling, but they need to be very judicious in their use of mana-sapping Consecrate.
So, my advice to healers, especially priests who love keeping shields up on a pally tank, is to check with the pally beforehand how he or she wants to handle it. If they can hold threat on lots of mobs and aren't squishy, give them the go-ahead. Otherwise, consider holding off on the shields until really necessary.
May 20th 2010 3:18PM ^^^ This!
While I do have Pitbull set up to show my toon, my target, and my target's target right below, I still use IceHUD so I don't have to look down to see my health and mana/rage/runic power. Between that and using Parrot for scrolling battle text, I can determine the need to blow a CD without having to change my eye level. As a tank, especially, I think this makes a big difference.
May 12th 2010 6:47PM Greg (and the wow.com staff),
Can we please get some prot/ret paladin articles that aren't quite so generic? This seems to be just another "don't be a noob player" article that could just as easily be directed at any other class with just a word change or two.
It's rather disheartening that, at least on the prot/ret side of things, we get such fluff masquerading as class/spec articles.....that is when we get anything at all.