Aug 10th 2011 10:23AM Disc Priest: What I would like is less of a spell and more of a talent. I would like something that makes renew a bit more viable for us. I'd honestly love it if renew were included on the crit bonus in Renewed Hope. Once you hit a certain crit level it would allow you to put a spell on your targets that would not only proc DA a bit more often, which would boost renew to the point where it would likely be something discies would be willing to consider, but it would also extend existing DA shields on targets creating a very dynamic, interesting advantage to leverage. I think it would be a subtle thing that a lot of people wouldn't fully appreciate at first, but would be a lot of fun to try and leverage.
Aug 9th 2011 8:24AM It sort of depends on the situation. I'm an incredibly well geared healer, so on the off chance the first one I more or less just say "Look I'm geared, but if you pull faster than I can heal it's your repair bill. I'll have enough time to get out, so good luck"
The Not doing boss thing I'm 100% for. No one should enter an LFG group with an expectation of doing optional bosses. That is a pure democracy thing. We're all there for valor now. You can ask about optional bosses, and if the group's willing great, if not then do it next time you're in the dungeon. If the majority of the group is willing, but one person isn't then unless they're the tank the optional boss will get done. At current gear levels you can miss one dps, and let's be honest healers go where the tank goes. It's Stockholm syndrome at this point. I should know, I'm a victim of it.
If someone says they're going for the achievement and there isn't consensus among the rest of the group then I'll let them know in advance they have been outvoted and I'm not healing them if they get themselves killed. If there is consensus I go with the democratic majority.
In the case of someone who is actually insulting I just do my best to point out that it's a game, and it's not worth it, and point out the logical fallacy (because there usually is one) and remind them it's just a game. Those people usually end up dropping.
The 1 time I will get "entitled" is when it becomes obvious someone has never been in a dungeon before, and they're too ashamed to admit it and they're racking up my repair bill not out of general incompetence but because they don't know the fights. I have gone on long rants telling people "I don't care if you're new, everyone's new at some point. Don't go jumping into Cata boss battles you don't know without asking how it works and rack up 3 wipes worth of repairs for everyone else, when an explanation and 1 wipe would have given you the information you need to complete the battle. I get it, people in here are usually jerks, I don't care. Fess up, admit you don't know the instance and I'll explain it. If you don't fess up then I will have to assume you actually are as incompetent as these last 3 wipes indicate and we'll vote kick. Silence is an awfully stupid reason to get kicked"
I usually get a confession, start explaining fights, and everyone gets their valor points after those rants, but every once in a while it won't happen.
Aug 9th 2011 8:06AM I'm going to throw another possibility out there for you to chew on. It is possible that your friend is an undiagnosed autistic. There is a lot of material out there on hard core Geek culture and autism. I don't mean the "oh geek is chic now EVERYONE loves video games" culture of the last 10 years or so either. I'm talking about the people who would still have been "geeks" in the 80's and 90's. There is a lot of overlap. I'm also not talking hard core autism either, so try and put your pre-conceptions aside. We're talking just enough autism to create a fixation on something systematic . . . like rules, and a mild impairment to reading other people's emotions. These are the two traits of autism that tend to jump out the most in people who have a mild enough case that they can make it to adulthood without being diagnosed, and they are both traits that drive most rules lawyers. That is not to say all rules lawyers are autistic, because that's just not true. However, the specific social frustrations you describe in communicating to your friend, and his disappearance/reappearance cycle does seem to fit.
This is not to say you should write him off because he's autistic, or that you should totally forgive his behavior because he's autistic, or anything like that. It could be worth your time to go do some casual reading on autism and let that inform you on what types of communication approaches would be the most productive with an autistic person, and maybe let that inform the way you approach him a bit, and just give you some perspective on how to approach him. Also autism is a "spectrum" as they say. I've known people who just display a few traits, would never be diagnosed by a doctor, but the way they tick is close enough to autism that using some of the social and mental approaches that are recommended for autistic people is still helpful for them.
So give it some thought, do your best not to use it as a label, because that tends to be counterproductive, but if you just use it as a context to inform your interactions a little bit then it might help things. Good luck with your rules lawyer, they can be difficult, but it's always sad to loose a friend.
Aug 2nd 2011 3:18PM Note I said Grid and Clique or other addons that provide similar functionality. You have to use something other than the default healing interface which is bad for healing, but really bad for jumping between dps and healing dynamically.
Aug 2nd 2011 8:43AM You mention Halfus, a uniquely Atonement positive fight. Other uniquely Atonement positive fights include Magmaw (if you do the 1 person kiting the worms approach), and the T11 BH boss, who's name eludes me right now. That and Atonement is kind of 5 mans, but who cares about 5 mans.
In fights other than that if you're raid healing then you're just working towards the archangel buff because your raid isn't staying in range of the boss. On fights like Nef you have the larger problem that the tank might not even be in range of the boss because that 15 yards is measured from the middle of the boss, not the edge of his hit box (I REALLY wish they would change that, it would in no way break the game). Atonement is actually in my opinion the superior spec for raid healing, because of Archangel, but you're not using it for the atonement, just the buffs.
The Other Spec, which you should be using if you're tank healing to be honest is the Strength of Soul spec. Where instead of all the Atonement stuff you take some other Raw Throughput, and take Strength of Soul. You're spamming heals on the tank, so their weakened soul dbuff goes away much faster and you keep PW:S on them as often as you can. It's a mana intensive approach, but you're tank healing so PoH is not part of your mana misery, it kind of balances out, and you do get more of your potential maximum rapture procs. So yeah, that's your other option.
Aug 2nd 2011 8:30AM OK, I've played Atonement since Cata dropped, before holy fire and there is a lot of incomplete information in this article, and in the comments. I say incomplete because I don't want to make it seem like what is here is bad info, it's really a decent guide, it just doesn't finish.
My main beef is with the view of archangel as a mana talent falls a little short. It is generally not a mana dynamic because you're going to spend more mana getting your stacks back up than you would have if you'd left them up. However, that is less true now that we're only stacking them with Holy Fire in raids. So if you have one of those major int proc trinkets, and I would add mandala of stirring patterns to the mix of acceptable 359 trinkets, I know I know the proc doesn't have a chance of going off from your HF or Smite, and that bothered me when most of my healing was in 5 mans (when the proc isn't needed amusingly). In raids you're going to be throwing so many actual heals that it's not a problem. It will proc, and it's a HUGE Int buff. If you have that, Power Torrent, and Lightweave Emroidery then you can on occasion have all three int buffs up at once, and let me tell you when that happens and you drop archangel, or even better get an archangel and a rapture off it is great mana regen. So be aware of your buffs, maybe build them into power auras (To be fair I don't, but I'm considering it), it's worth it to pay attention to them.
The other thing is I find it a little unfortunate that the author mentions addons in this article (power auras), but doesn't mention grid and clique. These addons, or others that provide the same functionality are in my opinion a requirement for raiding in general, but they are an absolute requirement for Atonement healing. I have been using them since Ragefire Chasm because our guild leader used to raid heal in BC and had me install them. With them you do not target to heal at all, you just mouseover your raid frames (utilized by grid) and then do a click combination like shift+right click alt+left click etc to execute your heal. This leaves your target open for atonement. You just stay targeted on what you're going to holy fire/smite and then you can throw the spell whenever without changing targets or messing around with focus macros. There really is no other option for atonement healing, none at all. Just some things to keep in mind.
Jul 22nd 2011 11:24AM Ok, no . . . just terribly no. I will admit to going on gank fests (especially in the target rich environment of the Molten Front Dailies) after a particularly bad raid or zandalari to get my RAGE out. But I do not in any circumstances camp, and never EVER camp lowbies. In a mixed all high level environment like the Molten Front it's cool to gank. If someone's really pissy about it they can easily look in their combat log, see your character name and rally their the army of their faction doing dailies to exact vengeance, and turnabout is totally fair game, I'm cool with that. Similarly TB dailies, come on it's a pvp zone. It's what it's about. But there's a special place in Ragnaros's toilet for people who camp lowbies. Seriously.
Jul 8th 2011 9:44AM Ok, thank you for the well thought out response, which I haven't seen much in this discussion at all. I do however have a couple qualms with your numbers, you kind of jump all over the place in your examples
1) You list 2000spirit/6500int as a benchmark when talking about heroic raids. I just ran Mr. Robot on best in slot T12 heroic gear, which is what this discussion has been about and came up with 3074 spirit/7828 int. That is not a mild deviation. So let's discuss the actual scenario at hand. That is gemmed and reforged, but that is part of Blizzard's calculation on what heroic raiders will do, and if you find me a successful heroic raider that doesn't gem and reforge I'll consider your numbers. . . maybe. But I'll have to check your example first. That difference in stat will increase passive regen, it will massively increase the benefit from shadowfiend and hymn of hope (which by the way are your numbers based on casting both of those at once, a move that dramatically increases gains from shadowfiend, and every heroic raider will do), and do your numbers account for mana gains from other priests hymn of hope, from shammy's regen totem cooldown, from any potential innervates thrown your way, from proc spirit regen trinkets? I don't see any of those mentioned, and they do add up to a significant amount of mana, especially when you are in 25 man and you have maybe another priest using hymn, and a shammy dropping their regen totem. Also, do your calculations include doing things like making sure you hymn during time warp? The other healers will have a throughput boost so being in hymn is less of a problem, and you will get more ticks.
These might seem like "extreme strategies", but they account for a LOT of mana over a long fight, and in heroic mode making a point of doing things like this is expected. Blizzard wants you to be making these choices in heroic and it's perfectly reasonable to expect that if you mess this stuff up you might risk going oom. I have NO problem with that design philosophy.
Being off your stat estimations by a THIRD, and not calculating any of the above mentioned regen dynamic into your model is a bit ridiculous, don't you think? (For context I ran just the base spirit adjustment for the MR. Robot BiS gear numbers and came up with 4548 MP5 from spirit regen compared to your 3111, that's not considering the higher Hymn/Shadowfiend/replenishment figures for the higher int base). Also, your numbers aren't taking into account raid buffs, which again aren't insignificant. The mana pool increase from Kings is noticeable, not to mention the extra throughput buffs.
2) I'd like to point out something that a LOT of priests choose to ignore. Inner Will. I have moved to Inner will instead of Inner Fire on fights where I had fine throughput, but mana was being an issue. It's more useful for disc, to be fair as it makes the shield/rapture relationship a bit ridiculous, but 15% off PoM, Renew, Circle of Healing for Holy priests isn't insignificant, not to mention faster run speed mean getting out of fire faster, means healing yourself for less. There was a fight where the holy priest in my guild and I were going oom on a fight, and so we moved to Inner Will and suddenly were ending the fight with a third mana without even using all our cooldowns. It makes a difference. Maybe Blizzard wants priests to use that spell occasionally? Just saying. Consider it a side note, just something to ponder. If you're SO UPSET about getting all this throughput stat instead of spirit maybe you could shift your buffs to a more mana conservative source.
Really, I could keep going, but haven't I covered enough ground already?
Jul 7th 2011 10:26AM @kaosgrace: First, no I raid as a disc healer. I have tried playing as holy and I just don't like it, never have. Chakra is kinda fun, but it never jived with me.
Second, you make some interesting points about how spirit is a great stat for holy and would, if you got enough of it allow you to use heavier hitting spells and not have to worry about casting your more efficient heals . . . wait . . . that sounds a lot like wrath. You basically make the case for how if Blizzard provided us enough spirit we wouldn't have to heal the way Blizzard said they wanted us to heal in Cataclysm on current content.
You're making the argument of a player who wants a specific thing because it will make playing easier and make them "more powerful". Blizzard balances the game, and in this expansion specifically healing around making things challenging, but viable.
So I'll cave, having tons of spirit would indeed be awesome, yay awesome. However, when you look at us from an outside balance standpoing, and look at how our regen works with our cooldowns, and talents (yay 15% bonus spirit regen), compared to other healers, and thinking about Blizzard's stated design goals at the beginning of the expansion this is not only a reasonable move, it should have been an expected one.
You sum it up quite beautifully in your final statement. Holy priests won't go oom, they'll change their spell selection, which will make them "Less useful to the raid". But less useful than what? Than they could have been if they'd been given infinite mana? Well yes, that is true, and I wanted a pony when I was 10, but I didn't get one isn't that sad?
The question is will priests be less useful than other healers given how their stats interact with their talents. That's all that matters, and I don't buy that the amount of spirit on cloth will result in priests being at a disadvantage to other healers. Priest healing is to dynamic, and awesome, and well . . . awesome for that.
Yes, we will still have to make meaningful difficult choices about which spells to cast when, and after raiding in Wrath all I can say is THANK GOD!
Jul 7th 2011 9:14AM Oh pretty much everything. I was the definition of casual during vanilla. I started playing first week, and it was my second MMO. I played Earth and Beyond for a while, but dear god was that one boring as all get out.
I played with my friends and we had either the first Ally guild, or like one of the first few on Azjol Nerub. We really just messed around and were social, because those were the days when someone in their 40's was HARDCORE!!!!! Compared to today's non stop slog to end game and raiding in the first 6 months or so of the game everyone was just sort of enjoying the scenery. End game wasn't a big deal. I ran dungeons every now and then. I think I did Deadmines, Stockades, Zul, Farrak, Sunken Temple, and Strathholm (though not to the end boss) on my first little warlock. I remember the original PVP titles, and I have a 40something priest on Azjol Nerub sporting one of them still, though I will never play him again. Real determined dungeoning seemed like too much work, raiding was terrifying, the BGs in those early days were hard to queue for, and I was absolutely no good at them at all.
Then BC hit, and I burned out on the shores of Hellfire. I never even saw Zangarmarsh. After staying up on release day, and paying release price for BC I would log in, do half a quest and log out because I just felt . . . nothing. At that point I couldn't really imagine enjoying anything.
BC goes by, and I end up with an office mate who plays WoW, we clicked, and he told me about the zombie event. So after missing all of BC I decided to re-activate my account as 3.1 dropped. My office mate had burned out on raiding, because he'd been in a fairly hard core raiding guild for all of BC. We decided to try and level just using the dungeons. What started as 5 people became me playing a priest with grid/click and a raid healer teaching me how to do it right, my office mate (the raid healer) playing a frost mage, and his friend playing a warrior tank when he REALLY didn't want to tank, but had no choice. We 3 manned our way to Sunken Temple when another friend joined, and then we 4 manned our way through BC dungeons. It was amazing, and we got through several "bad pulls" that by all rights should have probably laid out a 5 man group, but we were playing like we were in a raid, and it was amazingly awesome. So when we finally got to Northrend and raids became a possibility I jumped in with fervor.
Similarly I was talked into arena with a couple friends, including my referenced co-worker, and while I'm still not a hard core arena player we win as many or more matches as we loose, and it is a ton of fun. Totally worth trying everything in the game. So totally worth it.