Dec 2nd 2011 4:05PM I am doing RF now. On my PVP geared warrior while reading and replying to this thread. Its way to easy.
Its a nice idea but should have been set up for FL to allow people to catch up in terms of story and gear. Its plain wrong that the first time I kill a boss in the latest patch is with a bunch of strangers while grinding VP to convert to conquest once arena starts
Oct 5th 2011 5:03AM "the fact remains that unholy DKs, BM hunters, destruction warlocks, subtlety rogues, maybe SV hunters and certainly mage specs requiring more than two buttons (I joke!) are all in need of some kind of DPS help."
Another addition to the list of quotes showing you dont PVP. Sub Rogues and Frost mages are out and out PVP specs. Both perform way ahead of all hunter specs. For the love of God please dont suggest they need any DPS help.
Anybody raiding in these specs is doing so for a laugh. Though its a crying shame they can perform as well as BM.
Sep 16th 2011 4:55AM I posted this over at WHU, where I sense I am in a minority of maybe 1 in my views. I checked in here to see what responses are and am glad to see some others share them.
(note to anyone who has only played one class and moans about them. Try leveling and playing another it can be very educational.)
I will say again. Minimum range is NOT a PVP issue. To the contrary it make PVP balanced against pure melee classes.
Hunters are already OP vs warriors 1v1 in PVP and close to OP vs rogues/pals/DKs. Ferals are more of an issue but this is because ferals are themselves OP able to dip into a range of tank/heal abilities at will with little penalty and with inbuilt PVP advantages in stealth/sprint/roots/freedoms.
The biggest issue with minimum range in PVP is that other “ranged” classes do not have a minimum. This is an issue for hunters and also btw most melee classes. Mages in particular abuse this contradiction to an extent that is plain stupid.
If minimum range were removed hunters would have an unfair advantage against melee in PVP. That is in noone’s interest. All classes should be balanced. To this end much better make all ranged classes have minimum range and learn to live with it like we have to.
Note. There is no contradiction between me saying hunters are OP vs some melee classes and saying they also are worst at PVP and have been treated shabbily by Blizzard last expansion and this.
This is because PVP is a team game. Hunters have the least synergy with any other class and very little by way of special abilities that makes people want them. (They have one, freezing trap, with worst mechanic and easiest avoidance in the whole game.) This means that for most arena combos and all rated BGs you can take a hunter and replace them with any other class (same gear/same skill) and be better off.
So even though hunters can easily beat warriors 1v1 atm warriors are still more in demand because they can do more for their team than hunters can while taking less looking after in terms of healing/dispel needed.
What hunters need for PVP is not removing minimum range so that they are still some sort of second class mage.
Rather what they want is some special, unique abilities that have synergy with other classes and makes those classes seek out hunters and beg them to join their teams.
I appreciate this may be a bit difficult and hard to understand which is why people adopt the simplistic idea that just removing minimum range will sort everything.
It won’t it will just make the game less interesting.
Jan 18th 2011 6:24AM Wrong for 2 reasons:
> All classes should be equally attractive to all players. Fact is some classes are hybrid some pure DPS.
If hybrid classes can DPS as well as pure DPS then hybrid classes are too attractive. Why choose a pure DPS class at all? Go hybrid you can do as well as anybody else and btw gear up your DPS by running dungeons as a tank or healer.
Pure DPS class should be capable of better DS than a hybrid class. However a substantial component of all DPS should be skill based. So the average hunter will do better DPS than the average ret but the better/best ret pals will do better DPS than the average hunter.
Hybrid classes have an inherent PVP advantage due to damage mitigation/healing skills gained due to their tank/healer role(s).
Pure DPS classes need something to balance this and higher DPS is one, natural, way of achieving this.
Jan 10th 2011 11:47AM Even if they fix the bug of new Aim damage not procing on SS it most likely still wont make MM comparable to SV for PVP. SS is just to clunky and, as noted in the article, the buff to Chimera too small.
Nov 26th 2010 5:01AM Also agree with QQInsider above. Bliz's system of prioritising fixes seems to be RNG.
And they would have a lot more time on their hands if they didn't screw up things that were working perfectly OK before the patch and, on the face of it, shouldn't have been affected by the changes.
My two "favourites" from 4.0.3a
- My turbo coptor has been fitted with an electric motor. Now when I fly it is in perfect silence. This is just to un-nerving so back on my gryphon. But I'm an engineer damit. I want lots of noise and smoke. The shattering wasnt due to my exhaust gases. Its due to a big black dragon, honest..
- Isle of Conquest: Anyone working on this BG should be fed as titbits to King Dred. A-fing-mazing. With the first patch they screwed up so hanger ports you to a nonexistant plane that then drops you in the sea...
4.0.3a - they obviously did some work on this BG. No they didnt fix the hanger. Instead they put in a new feature. When you destroy a gate a huge pink indestructible force field replaces it so you cant get into the keep.
You couldn't make it up..
Nov 26th 2010 4:40AM Couple of minor pet things:
- Good: Exotics no longer lose Dash or Charge talents when being resummoned.
- Bad: On pet death we can no longer interrupt Revive Pet and summon another.
And you missed the best bit of the whole patch.
- Necrophiliacs get a 12% bam to their damage. Serves them right for not giving their pets the love and attention they deserve..
Jun 1st 2010 5:11AM Hi, some comments based on our kill
Overall: Most important advice is last paragraph. Its hard but forget DPS rates*. Key to success is dealing with the challenges of each phase and the transitions. Doing your job and avoiding risk are the most important, not topping DPS. If you do this you will get a kill as the enrage timer is plenty generous. Re Glyphs, Chimera shot is my vote instead of Kill shot since good in combination with Concussive Barrage.
* One thing that helped us get first kill was RL ordering all to switch off Recount et al. This made a noticeable difference. From later tries, with it back on, the surprising thing is how low DPS can be to get a comfortable kill. Mine is just 5k, 3k or so down on normal, with other classes similarly "low".
P1. An easy phase once you get the hang of it. Main thing is to avoid errors and for this reason the lazy way is IMO the best way to tranq shot the shambling horrors, since its risk free. I slightly amend to set focus on the first that spawns and just keep tranqing via @focus macro. Once dead reset focus to second. In practice if 2 shambs are up then it means u will not be able to tranq both in any case due to cooldown. This is not a disaster, in fact in one of our runs I died early and group managed to get through P1 without any problems despite constant enrages. (btw important: if you get plague don't worry about tranq shot. Move asap.)
TP1: If on ice orbs use downtime to DPS raging spirits. Its a long fight so think about switching to viper at the start as there wont be much to dps until orbs/raging spawn.
End TP1 - rush off edge but DO NOT rush to centre. Orbs spawn til end and there may be one still up so group needs to hold back til its dealt with. In any case group should be focused on last raging spirit.
Our group didnt need MDs on spirits, tanks had no problem picking them up provided people with them moved promptly to assigned tank. If hunter on orbs then I'd suggest not also make them fret about MD as it only takes one missed orb to wipe.
P2. This is the hardest phase. But easy once you get key message:
- Hug for valk, spread for defile.
---> Hunters its hard but you need to suck up and really hug so you will lose your best shots (hence volley if your mana can take it). Once they pick up victim Valks take shortest route to edge so if you hang out so you can continue DPS you hugely increase risk you will be dropped if picked)
- When valk up ALL dps switch, slow and nuke. Failing this is single biggest reason for wipes (I use /tar macro to do asap on emote, just word of caution use full Val'kyr Shadowguard name so as not to be confused by any friendly Valks spawned by trinkets...)
Key is use DBM or whatever timers to anticipate next challenge and move accordingly. If both seem to come at same time assume valk and hug since thats biggest risk. Just be quick on toes for the defile.
I strongly recommend dropping frost trap right in centre of platform. This guarantees that valk will be slowed from the off. (Only risk is it can obscure a defile but if a defile is in the centre then you are screwed anyway). Definitely think spending point(s) in concussive barrage is worth it too (will be useful not just this encounter but in others once you start hard mode).
TP2: RL and/or DBM will warn end P2 arriving. Safe way to handle is ease down on LK DPS to deal with any immediate defile or valk. That said if Valk spawns and transition kicks off you can ignore it since the party member will be dropped safely on the platform.
Otherwise TP2 same as TP1 but even more important all focus on raging spirits and not immediately retarget LK just because you can.
P3. Easier than it appears provided folks focus on priorities, not try to go mad on LK because scent of a kill is in the air...
- Gettting the last raging spirits down asap is key, so now is good time for heroism. Once done its simple case of keeping well spread to allow for defiles, letting melee focus on LK and some ranged working on viles. Hunters are OK at this but other classes better, Shadow Priests for example.
- Viles hit but not too hard (around 10K). A good way to deal with them is for some folks to just soak rather than DPS. Key thing is just to make sure only one gets soaked at a time and it only hits one person. Hunters can do this by pulling one to soak then moving to a second to DPS then, possibly a third to soak.
- Inside Frostmourne: I think safest is to go MM and use silencing shot. This is in accordance with the overriding rule for this encounter, keeping things as risk free as possible. (I was SV and changed to MM for this reason. Pets should survive the encounter but crap happens and sod's law clearly states that the only time you will be drawn into Frostmourne is the time your interrupting pet has just died. You (and more importantly your pet) will not be popular if raid wipes due to this.)
Good luck and good news. Apart from the glory of killing LK this means that the rest of ICC starts getting interesting all over again as many of the bosses are a lot different in hard mode....
Apr 6th 2010 4:10AM Thanks for this article, wish I it had been published earlier would have stopped me wasting hard earned frost.
Though as u say its about how to get good gear without raiding I would make an exception for VOA for a couple of reasons:
- By a long way its top in terms of gear/emblem content in comparison with time spent.
- It's ridiculously easy, especially in 25 man mode.
I would suggest all try to get on VOA as soon as possible once turned 80. Guilds may help with this but if that fails just do WG battles (in itself a useful source of gear via honor and tokens) and try to get onto one the groups that form when your faction wins. Go for 25 first as your crap gear is a lot less likely to get noticed.
If you are persistent someone will take you and you will get at least a couple of frost and, perhaps, triumph. And you may strike gold and get a T10 or T9 drop that will save a lot of frost grinding.
On a similar vein all should try to go on weeklies as soon as possible. Again try to find a 25 group and spam for entry. Most are very easy with the gear around now.
Mar 29th 2010 4:51AM The Heart of The Phoenix is good news for those of us that like the challenge of extreme soloing.
I know the easy way to do this is get yourself a turtle but I find it a lot more interesting to use a devilsaur. You have to do a lot more thinking this way having to much more finely balance threat/dps/pet healing. For the harder bosses one strat is to let the pet die then kite the boss while casting HOTP, then FD. Apart from giving you a whole lot more killing time its just nice to see the boss thinking he's going to nail you getting kicked up the backside.
This change gives us an opportunity to push this even further so bring it on...