Jul 24th 2011 7:32AM Honestly I must out myself as someone who rather likes Garrosh as Warchief than Thrall. He might not be particularly sensible in his hatred for the Alliance, but at last his actions are understandable given the near famine which plagued Durotar and the denial of any trade on the side of the Night Elves during that time.
I mean come on, you don't know Garrosh's next move, with the history of character development behind him and the sense of honour he definitely possesses there is the chance that he might come to an agreement with the Alliance after all, especially if a continuation of the war only brings dishonour... though maybe not, but that is the insecurity which thrills me every time I read of his next move.
Thrall's time as warchief after the founding of Durotar on the other side seemed consist mainly of failed diplomatic initiatives, a failure to deal with the Forsaken and ongoing trouble at home to make his people understand why he acted this way... I don't want to have this back(though I guess Metzen would make it look epic)!
I look forward to read Jaina's novel, she is really a great character and her role in the Horde-Alliance war is painfully failed to be addressed at all so far.
Apr 27th 2011 2:33PM A great story to give us insight into an easily overlooked leader... I must say this gave me new respect for this Troll and the Darkspears!
This was also a big chunk of Darkspear lore, giving us an idea of how they lived on their island.
Apr 18th 2011 12:14PM Honestly, the constant attempt to draw Garrosh as a maniac is tiring.
Trying to use Orgrimmar's construction as proof he is looking down on other races is not as easy as described here. Let's not forget while the trolls clearly moved far away from the centre, the Goblins came in later and used the only free place available, so is Garrosh to blame for the Goblin's lack of ecological awareness?
So what about the lack of a place for the Forsaken and the Blood Elves? First lets remember all the races present in the city have their respective capitals close, at last on the same continent, the races not present have none. But even if the Forsaken came to Kalimdor in great numbers, at last since the Wrathgate incident you can't expect even Thrall granting them a place in Orgrimmar. The Blood-Elves meanwhile have definitely not the numbers left to let many of them live at this city so different from their own.
So Garrosh is looking down on other races? Well he regards the Tauren with high esteem and while he despises the Forsaken, so does nearly everybody else, something which won't change without a change of leadership. Does he dislike elves? I admit I saw little of this, but this is the point, given the time the addons have seemingly encompassed so far we had just spotlights to guess much of the characters viewpoint. This is regretful, but does this mean we have to take the quests of some npcs as basis for what their leader thinks?
Oct 23rd 2010 4:53PM Wow, best cut scene in Wow yet... guess they have to give the other races such a cut-scene, too.
At last half that level or the players will start a rebellion.
Sep 29th 2010 4:06PM Another great article on one of the forming characters of Warcraft lore.
Orgrim is rightly described as the ultimate pragmatist and a ruthless warchief if needed, yet, I feel major aspects of his personality missing.
One is that he most likely, aside from lower ranking persons Eitrigg maybe, embodies the best aspects of the old Horde, being pragmatic and doing what he feels needs to be done not because blood lust, but because of deep love to his people drives him.
At the same time he shows the darker traits of the orcs at that and some may argue modern time, being uttermost pragmatic he is more than ready to use cruel methods and even extinguish other races to ensure their own survival.
But right there it is we see what it is Orgrim misses, the balance and calmness the wisdom the shamans provided the orcs with in the generations before, or more important, the idealism and non-orthodox view of the world Durotan provided him with.
Not even considering a possible peace with his former enemies and the possibility of securing the survival of his people in form of an understanding with the Alliance, his goal was to conquer the lands of Lorderon to ensure that every clan had its own land again as it was in the time before the coming of the warlocks, making a peace between humans and orcs at last impossible.
As with Goblins, Trolls and Ogres Doomhammer seemed gifted in making and holding alliances, showing no sign betrayal, being even honourable to his agreement with the ruler of Alterac in not attacking his land. Would the Horde have won this war and had Alterac's army not abandoned the treaty, it is more than likely that this human nation would have remained largely unmolested by the orcs... far from simply being green locusts.
So why not going one step further in trying to make peace with the rest of the humans? One reason is probably the simple fact that orcs and humans tend to prefer the same environment, open plains rather than the thick forests of the trolls and elves or the small spaces goblins seem to be happy with and Alterac seems to not really be the kind of space(small and rocky) you lead a war for(except your are Stromgarde and Gilneas maybe).
The other reason is that his people knew only the lifelong unforgiving struggle with the ogre clans and then the merciless war with the Draenei, he likewise seemed to be a child of this time. All or nothing, Lok'tar ogar(Victory or death.). They fought the humans in Stormwind so they had to bring it to an end in Lordaron, everything but victory ensuring their survival is defeat... oh and the demon blood running in all but a few orcs, screaming for blood and murder leaving few space for more rational thoughts save some exceptions.
It is there where the author seems to miss the significance of Durotan's death for the Horde. He embodies the idealism and unconventional thoughts which could have dragged the orcs away from this path. With him being alive diplomacy would have an advocate and Orgrim would have listened especially with the aspect of not needing Gul'dan and his warlock magic at all.
In the end, despite being the Warchief he was not for his own greatness but to bring peace to his people, peace through victory after which his people would have essentially been allowed to resume the life they had before the corruption. It was his greatest failure not to be the really revolutionary leader who might have accomplished this and his greatest accomplishment to find this leader in Thrall as his successor.
Jul 15th 2010 5:35AM This is exactly why I love Blizzard's storytelling. Telling a story to the end like that of the Lich King, while leaving enough loose ends to tell new ones as with the Nerubians, Bolvar, etc. No definite end to all evil, no magic wand to make all things right again.
I can't wait to see how/if this storyline is taken up again eventually.
What is still to mention here is that from what we saw in the background of the various nerubian themed dungeons we just saw a glimpse of the Nerubian Kingdom. Pity Blizzard never got to make it a zone.
Jun 26th 2010 9:31PM Temporary warchief doesn't mean he is written out of lore. He could simply go back being "just" an important horde general. Unlikely, but hey Blizz wrote they wanted us to show another side of Garrosh and they are always tending to make surprises.
Jun 26th 2010 8:19PM Great article, which definitely shows us much about Varian and why he is who he is. Still I think you put a bit too much blame on Garrosh. While he definitely fits the description worst diplomat ever, he didn't torpedo the peace summit at Theramore, it was Varian's understandable while still irrational decision to end the talks for good....
The Ulduar trailer is another example, while Garrosh draws the weapons and offends him, Varian does so much as CHALLENGING him to battle, something we know the brown skinned hothead would never flinch from. Sure it is possible he would have agreed on a cooperation against Yogg-Saron, but given his reaction on seeing both orcs and his last words it isn't very likely.
Again, while I understand his position we have to see that they are in effect as bad as those Garrosh makes out of simple black and wide outlook on the world mixed with slight bloodlust. Both their willingness to rather go against each other than to face the threat against all life on Azeroth is makes the outlook on Cataclysm rather grim... and very interesting.
May 16th 2010 8:34AM Right, one major difference between Horde and Alliance is that there isn't one leader in the Alliance. Anduin Lothar and Turalyon had been the commanders of the alliance armies, but even back then they hardly could order Gilneas around...
Varian is the most prominent Alliance leader in the moment, but if he begins with ordering the other nations around I can see problems coming up.
May 14th 2010 6:20PM OK, I think we should take some breath here before yelling "Garrosh is evil!" again.
The Dragonmaw clan did capture the red dragon flight forcing them to fight for the Horde yeah. While this special clan did it, Doomhammer pretty much ordered it and the other now redeemed clan didn't really protest
Was this evil? Yeah because the horde did pretty much evil stuff back then. Drinking demon blood and fighting for survival does that to you. Sure giving diplomacy a chance first would have been nicer, but this was "THE OLD HORDE".
If you blame them for things they did in the old days you might very well accuse all orcish clans, including Thrall's idols(not a good idea).
So why does it sound so bad?
Fact is, after the orcish clans were freed, the Dragonmaws and large parts of the Blackrocks refused Thrall's call for unity simply because they hadn't been captured by the alliance and/or were rescued by Rend and Main before. Deciding to maintain their loyalty to the Burning Legion or at last to the power its promised while at the same time becoming little more than tools of Nefarian.
They remained "unredeemed"... until now.
What we learned now could mean that things have changed at last for the Dragonmaws. Joining Thrall's Horde they probably have given up their ways returning to good old shamanism regretting their role in the enslavement of Alexstrasza or at last not wanting to destroy the world like good old Deathwing...
Oh wait, it is Garrosh's Horde now, meaning to be part of it means they really don't have to be the good guys. But hey, lets give this guys a chance, at last they offer a cool base and Garrosh accepting Stormreavers or even the nice Twilight Clan back into the Horde would be an even worse sign.
Oh and please don't mingle the Dragonmaw Clan of Outland with that of Azeroth, they did not have any contact with each other for around 20 years.