Dec 6th 2011 11:01AM I can understand why they didn't include older content (it would be a lot of time to scale the encounters and drops), but it would have been awfully nice if they simply included Firelands and earlier raids as is to at least facilitate people running the content if they want to.
I am looking forward to LFR being continued through the coming patches/expansions. It's a great option for raiders with missing tier pieces, and non-raiders looking for a taste!
Dec 2nd 2011 1:48PM @Matt P
Yeah I figured my post sounded pretty pessimistic/jerkish, and of course you're right that there are capable non-raiders out there (I know several in my guild).
I'm actually pretty optimistic about this feature going forward: at first glance the difficulty seems to be about on par with the new heroics, so I think people of most skill levels will be able to learn the encounter reasonably quickly. The fact that many raiders will be sure to run it once a week at least will mean that there should almost always be a decent number of people who know what they're doing, so hopefully when a new person goes in the first few times there are lots of people doing the right thing and they can just do the same as the rest...
Dec 2nd 2011 1:26PM I hope everyone enjoyed the "Raiders Only" week of LFR. It took my PuG just barely over an hour to down the first 4 (2 total wipes). I agree with Grumpy Elf that this honeymoon can't last, as the unwashed masses will soon be standing in fire while pumping out sub 5k DPS.
That said, there will likely remain a good period of Raiders queuing as well to get their tier tokens, so my guess is that it will be a slow degradation rather than a fast drop in quality, and hopefully that slow drop in Raider attendance will be offset by the fight mechanics piercing through the think skull of the n00bs.
(Did that sound snobby? Probably ;))
Nov 28th 2011 2:52PM I think I agree with Eccentrica in general, but in particular, we don't know what the husband was thinking; this is entirely from the OPs viewpoint. Given than OPs husband is a WoWer, maybe *HE* would be able to give us some perspective on this...
Nov 22nd 2011 11:00AM While it's not necessarily applicable to online gaming, I think that sheltering your kids from something that you still have regrets about could end up leaving them not learning some important lessons.
Is it possible that you could use your bad experience to help guide your kids' own experiences? That way hopefuly they'd be able to learn the lessons that you learned the hard way the easy way...
Nov 21st 2011 2:22PM Not to disagree, but hopefully the OP can just ask the old raid leader if he plans to switch toons or not and that can help guide the decision.
I am actually in that very situation right now: I am planning to switch from cloth ranged DPS to cat DPS for 4.3 (we are HEAVY in clothed ranged, so gearing up is slow in raids, there is no other agi leather wearer in our group, plus I can tank with my OS to make gearing much quicker in dungeons).
I asked the group if they minded me using my cat (which is ~359 ilevel) instead of my mage (~370) for the easy fights (i.e. not rag :P), and while they said yes, our guild leader asked that I wait until 4.3 to do so for reasons that were stated in the article: in 4.3, base level heroic dungeon/JP gear will be 378 so my alt will very quickly gear up. The only real thing I'm losing is the shot at shoulder/head tokens which would be nice to have.
Reason the GL gave was to simply eliminate the chance of guild drama in case someone else wanted to do the same in the future and wasn't as well prepared to do so as I am, which I think is fair. She does enough work to keep us moving forward without any added work.
Nov 16th 2011 4:06PM Matt, regardless of our differing opinion on PuGs, I think it's safe to say we would agree that the joystiq comment system is truly awful...
Nov 16th 2011 3:56PM I think you may have misunderstood my addressing the meme thing: I was relating it to confirmation bias in that I think people perceive the aggregate "goodness" of their PuG runs as much lower than they actually were because they are predisposed to remember the bad ones (i.e. the meme primed them to be pessimistic, and thus pass on that pessimism to others).
I would really love to see that study. I think it could be a very interesting one for a psych student, as I believe that the study of confirmation bias/memes would be right up someone's alley.
I am a programmer, so I immediately thought of making an addon to prompt people to rate their experience after each PuG... I have considered making one in the past, so maybe I will. A quick google search did turn this up, though it seems to be more targetted at individual player ratings rather than overall experience (though you could presumably get some data from it): http://www.curse.com/addons/wow/grouper
Nov 16th 2011 3:50PM Matt replied to an accidental non-reply post, so I will copy it up here to keep the discussion cohesive:
fair enough, fair enough. :)
you do make a good point the gradual easing/outgearing of 5 mans, but i feel like it's comparing apples and oranges. the level of communication and synchronicity required for raiding (if you're not running BH, i suppose) far outstrips that required for 5 man heroics. but then again, maybe im being too generous. maybe the LFR raids are meant to be 5 man heroics in everything but name and number of players? no idea.
as for my last paragraph, i really do sincerely congratulate you on your successes....i just wish i could share in them! from my experience, you are in the minority of players that have had overwhelmingly good experiences in the DF, due in most part to either luck, skill, personality, or a combination of the three. i think the gripes come not so much from poor execution (although i'm sure that's a good bit), but from the shitty attitudes so prevalent throughout. if you are blessed enough to have the mental armor to ward off such infinite poison and still come out smiling, then you sir/madam deserve a medal of the highest honor.
it sounds as though you are confirming my point about the meme language: a meme is something that is replicated regardless of your personal experiences. i think the attitude about PUGs is distinct from the meme phenomenon - it is different people coming together (commiserating, true) to share their individual experiences that existed independent of other experiences. it's sharing, not replicating.
for your last point, i agree that it would be awesome to see the results of such a study. i think both of us have made sound points even though we are on different ends of the opinion spectrum, and even though i'm a bit grumpy and pessimistic about the community's capability to come together and randomly succeed as a team on a complex and high functioning level, im still able to concede that things may not be all bad. it would be neat to see what can be objectively confirmed outside of our individual bias'!
Nov 16th 2011 3:25PM Hey I didn't say that he had to go all Happy Fun Time Propaganda! :) I was merely pointing out that he was being awfully pessimistic (again with the "...will fail..." quote) considering the small sample size and that there was some level of success by those groups.
On thing to keep in mind is to compare this to the general gnashing of teeth about how hard heroics were at the beginning of cata and to consider how easy they are now: I have no doubt that the community will get better as time goes on: experience with the encounters will increase, as will ilevels.
I find it interesting that you would write that last paragraph, as it is the exact polar opposite of the paragraph I would write. I pug with a bear tank, and I can honestly say that the number of awful runs is VASTLY outweighed by the number of decent runs, and in fact, is even outnumbered by the truly epic runs (i.e. successful Bear Mount run). As such, I see it EXACTLY as a cultural phenomenon that is imitated and replicated throughout the community (in this case as a form of friendly commiseration, and/or self righteousness)
Certainly awful runs occur, but I can honestly not remember when I was in a fail group that wasn't solvable with patience and/or the kicking of a single member. I guess it depends a lot on your perspective and a bit on luck... Perhaps one (or both!) of us is/are suffering from Confirmation Bias? That's actually one of the reasons that I would LOVE to see either a large scale community based study to get hard numbers on the subjective PuG experience, OR an in-game rating system for players/runs in the LFD tool.