Oct 25th 2011 12:18AM I agree completely. It wouldn't even be *as* bad if you could pick 6 of the 18 choices, but it's 1 of 3 x 6, meaning (like someone pointed out) you can't have Dragon's Breath and Blast Wave anymore.
My girlfriend and I were looking at coming back to the game, particularly with the free Diablo 3 deal that they have going on: but I'm certain we won't be now. I loathe the new system. I won't degrade those who enjoy it: more power to you, but the two of us will be looking for a different game to play together.
Oct 25th 2011 12:12AM My girlfriend and I were considering renewing our WoW subscriptions but this change has me sure I won't be returning. I strongly dislike the change. I like the complexity that real talent tress bring to the game. I wasn't a huge fan of the way change to talent trees that Cata brought but I found it a well balanced system between complexity and intuitiveness.
This revamp just seems to appeal to the lowest common denominator of player. It may appeal to some and I won't condemn those who enjoy a simpler game but it isn't for me.
For those who are claiming this offers more choices, that's only if you assume that you HAD to use a specific build in cata (which almost all builds had at least some level of flexibility that allowed the character to be better for 5/10/25-man play and/or for certain encounters or group make ups), and suggesting that the new system offers more choices also assumes that the new system won't create the exact same dynamic.
Regardless of how others feel (I won't judge them, more power to those that like it), I dislike it and will be looking for a different game to play.
Jun 6th 2011 11:44AM Someone mentioned the idea of an alternative race as a glyph. Somehow I think the idea of having an "Any Class" glyph that allowed for racial morph into something like the ethereals or another 'neutral' race would be really cool: particularly if the race was able to have benefits that replaced your innate racials and were on par with "innate racials + prime glyph" worthy.
Just think if they made:
Prime Glyph: Transmutation Ethereal
Turns you into an Ethereal as long as this glyph is memorized. You lose all current racial benefits and gain the following:
Your primary stat is increased by 2%.
Fade Into the Ethereal: (X Duration, Y Reuse)
Tank Benefit: You fade into the ethereal, reducing the chance you'll be hit by enemy melee attacks and allowing you a chance to fully resist spells cast on you.
DPS Benefit: You fade into the ethereal causing your enemies to pay less attention to your aggressive actions and increasing your primary stat by 10%.
Healer Benefit: You fade into the ethereal and draw mana from the native energies around you. Your spells cast while ethereal (up to some#) cost half their normal mana.
Could also add a Major/Minor Glyph:
Reduces the reuse of your Fade into the Ethereal ability by Z seconds.
These are just simplistic suggestions that give you an idea of the scope that could be added.
Jun 3rd 2011 3:57PM It strongly depends on just how 'spikey' those periods of spike damage are.
If you're looking at periods where you're taking 200+% of normal damage in a short timeframe: then the change will be significantly useful. If you're looking at times when you're just taking like 20-50% more dps in that 'spike', then the change to HS is far less worthwhile.
Keep in mind that health pools are larger and healer mana is finite, so while there is value in preventing significant (read: deadly) spikes, any spike that doesn't significantly alter the healer's rotation or punish them (ie: require they use significantly less cost efficient spells) isn't truly a deadly spike. In a world of 'deadly spikes' - which for most simply includes the highest tier of raiding, and not even always then, then the change to HS will be of benefit.
For the rest of the world where healer mana is more of an issue in most fights than tanks being spiked down - this is a nerf, and a significant one. My point about devauling block is that it makes block worth less; but it still maintains a requirement for the ability. Chances are block will still be the most worthwhile stat, but the exact value you get out of block compared to other stats will deminish statistically, representing an overall net loss in value.
Jun 3rd 2011 3:37PM This isn't a buff. It's a change. The writer suggests that on a normal basis we take 'spikes' of damage - and that's very rarely true. Nefarion is an example of where it does happen: but there are MORE examples of where it doesn't happen.
Keep in mind that if you look at overall damage taken in a 30 second period: you'll need to take 50% more damage during the Holy Shield Cooldown for it to prevent an equivalent amount of damage - assuming you use HS on CD every 30s. According to the writer, that's the wrong way to use it (and it likely is) but the longer you're waiting the less and less that cooldown is worth and the more and more damage you're taking.
The writer then goes on to talk about being an 'OP' tank. What is 'OP' - OP is a comparative measure to others in the field. To compare us to our closest brethren, prot warriors, we'll notice that with increased values in 4.2 raid gear that prot warriors simply get better. They get an easier job of capping their mastery(which takes more to cap than ours), but their mastery is inherently better at higher numbers: their critical blocks are better than our 0 returns over block cap combine with a new castrated base block amount.
The worst part of the change: the change devalues block. Ok: not a huge deal, you remeasure your stat weights and retune your character. Oh... wait... now Holy Shield still requires you to have high block. So the value of block is being lowered for us, but it is still required for HS to be remotely useful. Let's not pretend this is a 20% physical version of Div Pro on a 30s timer: it requires a huge investment in block; a now weakened stat; to maintain that value.
All of this doesn't even touch on the fact that it makes average 'joe shmoe' tank worse at tanking. *MOST* non-pro tanks are going to find this change to be a significant nerf. In an environment where they talk about wanting to make tanking more appealing to newer players - this is the exact kind of change that completely flies in the face of it.
At best, this is a change; realistically, this is a nerf; and at worst, this may be one more thing that adds to dungeon finder queue times (or makes 'random' tanks that much less able to do their job).
May 29th 2011 10:31PM I'd argue that there are 4 viable glyphs: Div Pro, Div Plea, Divinity, and LoD. It varies on a fight-by-fight basis which is most valuable. If you're in
May 29th 2011 8:43PM @cyanea85
The mana cost increases are very very significant. The new gear will not compensate for that, and even after fully gearing up in new gear we will be unable to use DL, much less FoL, nearly as often as we can now. Keep in mind too that we won't just have all the new gear day 1. Even if it did compensate for the increased costs, it will still mean that we're taking a significant beating to our healing going into new raid progression which is when we need every bit of healing we can muster. By the time we have all the new gear (and people are at their best at avoiding avoidable damage) we may be in a more ok place, but the current changes leave any kind of progression oriented holy pal at an extreme disadvantage.
May 29th 2011 8:38PM (sorry, previous entry was truncated)
LoD in 5-man and even 10-man settings is 'ok' at best. I believe it has to hit at least 2 non-beacon target players in order to generate a comparable amount of healing to WoG. The biggest issue is that in 5-mans that people rarely, if ever, are grouped all together. In 10-mans the same issue exists.
There will be times when it's worthwhile, but they are very selective.
Also keep in mind that talent/glyph choices will affect the exact numbers. WoG'ing a low hp, less than 35% iirc, target, particularly with the new 200% crits, will be of significant value if specced for it.
It's also been mentioned before, but WoG'ing with 1 point of Holy Power can be a useful technique to exploit free healing from PotI. This works well for giving additional free healing to the beacon target and if you use your hand of sac effectively.
Overall, particularly with 4.2, I'd say outside of 25-mans that it is certainly not worth glyphing for LoD and will rarely be worth using it outside of "stack up for ae healing" scenarios. In 25-mans, the numbers will need to be re-crunched for the viability of WoG talents and LoD.
Lastly, keep in mind in raids that different encounters will prompt different usage and that can greatly affect the value of LoD v WoG. In Atremedes where little bits of damage are going out to everyone frequently, LoD is great. In Chimaeron, LoD is only useful during Feuds. In the same way, LoD can be great during the 1st encounter in Heroic Shadowfang for immediately putting everyone at >1 hp and all that healing helps give the tank (beacon target) enough hp to survive the first round of attacks. In the two new heroic 5-mans however, the areas are large and people generally spread out too much to make any effective use of LoD.
May 29th 2011 8:36PM LoD in 5-man and even 10-man settings is 'ok' at best. I believe it has to hit at least 2 non-beacon target players in order to generate a comparable amount of healing to WoG. The biggest issue is that in 5-mans that people rarely, if ever, are grouped all together. In 10-mans the same issue exists.
There will be times when it's worthwhile, but they are very selective.
Also keep in mind that talent/glyph choices will affect the exact numbers. WoG'ing a low hp (
May 29th 2011 8:23PM Any holy pals spending time on the PTR that can give a good idea of how our healing is after all these changes? Blizzard seems to want to tell us how "too efficient" we are, but at the same time the numbers generated on raids, right now, don't seem to give me that inclination. From my experience we're not the best healing spec/class right now: sometimes we can do well, but frequently other classes can do just as well or better.
It seems to me that the changes will drive us down to the bottom of the healing totem pole, however to the point it has me questioning the continued play of my holy paly in 4.2. I'm not one to say "I'll never play him again," but if the spec is going to spend month(s) as the runt of the healers, I'd rather play a class/spec that can better contribute to raids.