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Oct 6th 2011 4:44PM The OP was about raid healing, not tank healing. Allison was lamenting on how the resto druid AOE healing toolbox without WG is bad. "Once WG is on cooldown, the druid's other options for AOE healing are all ... well, terrible to nonexistent." This is what I disagree with. I hate talking about numbers, but it seems that a couple people really are set in this, so from the WoWhead tooltips, without any mana regen and not overhealing, a Resto druid will be able to toss out three rejuvs, one WG, and one Eff+SM for a total heal of 52675 across a max of 11 toons. Choosing Tranquility vice one rejuv and SM yields 55311 across a max of 13 toons. At that point you are out of mana.
A resto Shaman can, put out one RT, one HR and two CH for a total heal of 37642 across a max of 15 toons.
Not using tranquility, Druids average 4789 per toon for that round of healing. Shaman average 2510 per toon. As you start to add regeneration the disparity of the current system grows even more.
Druid heals in one mana round for 48958 or 4451 per toon, the shaman heals for 2622 per toon. The difference her is when regen begins to be accounted for. The growth in disparity is at a much slower rate.
Here is what this means, the Druid AOE toolbox is plenty powerful enough in 4.3 to keep druids in their niche of raid healing.
When we turn to Tank healing, which is not the point of the post in any way shape or form, but Ira was pretty insistent on equating shaman tank healing with druid aoe heals, there is a different story, absolutely. Shaman are able to bring one target from very low health to near full, druids simply can't do that. Does that mean that the druid single target toolbox is broken? It might, but that wasn't allison's point. Shaman can make heroic heals once in a while, and we have to know it is coming. As I wrote somewhere else on here, our Hallelujah 120-150k heal takes 4 GCDs and a crit to happen, that is longer than most boss cast times, so it is pretty rare, and when we do that, we have to wait 2 minutes to do it again. We have strong single heals, but that ability doesn't make our raid healing any better. We are good at different things. Druid reliance on a great thing, however, doesn't mean the rest of the stuff sucks. It doesn't. Even after the nerf druid healing will be strong, as it should be. Shaman single target healing will be stronger, as it needs to be.
Oct 5th 2011 9:45PM This isn't about fixing Shaman or *just* nerfing druids. The post is about how the toolbox for druid sucks. and Druids need a cool CD like SLT for reduction or for tank healing. Those aren't the druid niche. The druid niche is HoT healing, and you have a great cd in tranquility for raid healing. Your toolbox isn't broken, you have the same tools that the other healers have with some CDs that they don't have, just like they have a niche and CDs that you don't have. The balance may be off, that is what the PTR is about, trying to get the right balance among the tools. Trying to say that you won't be able to raid heal without an op -according to GC- Wildgrowth sounds like you are out of touch with Blizz's ideas on how healing should work. They want to make you think hard about how you are healing, they want you to have to chain and combo heals to perform well. My disc and holy priest team and I are aware of how we have to do these things to be adequate raid healers. That druids are going to be forced to use the tools (which may have to be tuned) that they have at hand is a good thing instead of enabling them to spam a single heal. It is the same reason I am happy with the changes to Chain Heal from Lich King. I don't spam CH anymore, I think and have to make decisions. It is harder, not broken.
Oct 5th 2011 8:34PM I think a different AOE spell rather than an additional AOE spell would differentiate well. Chain Heal is a pretty clear example of when a Shaman makes a good or bad decision, and everyone knows it. Blizz seems pretty set with the two AOE heals so changing the mechanics on a current spell to broadcast good or bad choices is fine, just adding a tool to compensate for a nerf is not the right way to go about it.
Oct 5th 2011 6:32PM @Jarre
Benching healers for druids may not happen in your guild, it doesn't happen in mine either. It does happen in PUGs, a lot. It usually happens by the RL psting the healer and telling them to switch to dps or get booted because a druid is willing to come. The druid shows up and wonders why there aren't any holy priests or resto shaman. I am glad you don't know anyone who does this, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen.
You are right that druid direct heals are slightly weaker than shaman/priest, but not by a significant amount. To buff my direct heals I have to pop Earth shield, Unleash Life, Focus Insight shock, and then heal,4 GCDs to get my single target, hallelujah heal. We still have to set up heals just like druids. Riptide is the same, I have to keep that up on three targets all the time in order to provide the casting buff and mana regen. So it is just as maintenance heavy as rejuv. You are right that I can't ignore Tranquility, and I did in miy post, I didn't even include it as a CD for druids in my comparison. My bad. You are right that it pads numbers, I don't really care about that. What it does do is heal, and only heal. You don't have to think about whether it will kill your tank if you pop it. In fact, you don't have to worry about anything other than if you will need it more in the next three minutes. It so blasts SLT out of the water that there isn't really a comparison to be made.
So the issue comes down raid healing and the 4.3 nerfs meaning druids will have to be creative and think about how to raid heal with the toolbox they have. The OP said that druids wouldn't have any options. My point was, and is, that they do, druids will just have to think, and think hard, just like the rest of the healers already have to do. Blizz is bringing druid mechanics in line with the rest of us in that way. I wanted to show that the toolboxes are similar enough that what the OP considers a broken toolbox is the norm and only because WG is so mindless and powerful does is seem like the rest of the tools are broken. Sure, life sucks without a gnomish engineering knife, that doesn't mean that a blacksmith hammer, skinning knife, and mining pick are bad.
I am certainly not obsessed with healing meters, it actually doesn't bother me that I am usually at the bottom either, really. I am concerned about toons dying, and in 4.2 raids are consistently, worldwide, dying less with druid healers than others because of the ability to pump out so much more healing throughout the course of a fight. There are times, two I can think of, when fight mechanics make other healers stand out for burst healing or loading a single target. But over the whole course of this expansion, druids have been the healing kings. That doesn't piss me off, I like it when druids join my raid, my job is a lot easier. I do get upset when you say that nerfing WG will break your class, it won't, it means you will have to think and learn how to heal the way blizz wants you to heal. Just like I can't spam the Jesus beam anymore. I agree, it can suck, but it doesn't mean the class has no other options.
Oct 5th 2011 10:01AM Druid PvE healing suffers more than other healers because of PvP? Resto Shaman are the poster children for PvE suffering due to outstanding (overpowered) PvP. All classes suffer from PvP to PvE imbalance one way or another, so yes, there should be some better distinction. But druids are hardly the most severely impacted.
Oct 5th 2011 9:33AM @Lissana
I assume you are talking about Spirit Link Totem as the damage reduction CD. It is a 10% reduction for 6 seconds (8 if talented) every 3 min. On top of that, it balances the health of those in range to the same percent. So if I haven't topped off the melee dps around the tank before the big damage comes in, and I pop SLT, I actually hurt the tank. SLT is great sometimes. It is also an executioner's tool.
So, 10% reduction for 8 seconds twice in a fight. or 10% (at the low end, likely 15-25%) increased healing for the whole fight?
And you would really bring a Shaman because of the great CD?
Oct 5th 2011 9:14AM You listed your toolbox, so here is the comparison to a resto shammy toolbox.
Swiftmend + Eff = Healing Rain --- SM is smart, HR is more powerful, call it a tie
Wildgrowth = Chain Heal --- both smart, WG range and power, hands down WG
Rejuvenation = Riptide - the comment "spending a GD on one person means I am not putting it on another" yeah, just like every other healer, you are not worse of here.
Lifebloom = Earth Shield --- LB is constant, ES procs. It is easier to switch ES targets. That is important when my tank dies because I can't pump out enough health to keep him/her alive while ES charges go unused. LB is better.
Nourish = Healing Wave ---same
Regrowth = Healing Surge ---tie, ohh wait HoT ftw, Regrowth
Healing Touch = Greater Healing Wave ---same
Innervate=Mana Tide Totem --- MTT, ohh wait, we were mana batteries, so that's nerfed
Rebirth=Reincarnate --- wait, I can't reincarnate someone else during combat? At least I can pop up long enough to recast Earth Shield before my 20% health disappears.
Tree of Life=ummm, Ghost wolf + Unleash Life? yeah, the tree wins.
?=Spirit Link Totem
?=Healing Stream Totem
There you have it, Resto shammies have SLT, a great CD, if you're in range, and only the tank is injured, otherwise it is an offensive tank killer
We also have HST, 550 HPS if you are in range. The 2-6% this adds doesn't quite match.
/snarky Wow, our toolbox is so much bigger and we bring so much more in terms of tools. /snarky off
The toolbox is intentional similar across all the healing classes. There are some minor differences, but none of the benefits outweigh the ability to pump out 15-30% healing on a consistent basis. Except for 1, or 2 fights. Gosh, I wish I was subpar on only 1 or 2 fights.
The complaint that a Resto Druid toolbox is crappy might be true. But it is a far more effective set of tools than the similarly equipped, but less powerful, toolboxes the other specs have. Keep complaining, suggesting, etc. This isn't meant to tell you to shutup. This is about addressing the idea in the OP that other healers have a better toolbox that Blizzard compensates for by buffing druid numbers. That is completely wrong and makes me wonder if most druids understand their tools even half as well I do mine.