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Mar 23rd 2012 4:12PM "Tyrande would want her people vindicated...it was Garrosh that screwed up the night elves in Azshara and the fact he skinned some. She would want to help."
Excuse me? Want to quote a source on this? I haven't heard of anything of the sort. Closest I've heard of something like this was when the Twilight Cultists were murdering and skinning elves. Garrosh got blamed but had no part in it. That's why he was so pissed at Cairne, Cairne just up and accused him with no proof.
The Night Elves got played for fools, and they walked right into it and eagerly believed what the Twilight Cult wanted them to believe.
Mar 23rd 2012 4:07PM "I'm fairly certain that invading a sovereign nations' territory and seizing it for yourself because they have resources you need and refuse to trade with you, is, in fact, fairly high up on the list of "things that can be considered war crimes.""
Actually, no. Although some people see war as a crime whenever it happens, a "war crime" is something particularly heinous that happens during a war. See below for more on this.
"I mean, not to get all serious here, but that was essentially Hitler's public rationale for invading other countries: Germany needs more land to prosper, and France sure does have a lot of it."
Actually, I think he was trying to re-seize the lands taken from Germany after they lost WWI (which they were only involved in because they had a treaty with a nation whose leader the other nations decided to assassinate). That was his public rationale, and it made plenty of sense to the German people.
But then, America also decided it had "manifest destiny" and killed many people on its way to spreading across an entire continent. Many nations have fought wars for land. Those nations' leaders weren't considered evil people.
What made the Nazis evil, really, and were the war crimes they were punished for (other than being the losing side; see the Soviets' lack of punishment, or anyone on the Allies' side), were things like the Holocaust, where, you know, they made concentration camps and burned people in them. Amazingly, the Allies decided to let slide the Soviets murdering millions of their own people, or the fact that the entire attack plan for Dresden was to terrify people by slaughtering civilians to create terror. The moment someone on the Horde re-enacts Dresden, Garrosh drops him off a cliff to fire him from his position.
The whole point of Kalimdor is that most of it is desolate and a mess. Sorry, but mud-and-straw do little to protect against the elements, and you might notice that Durotar is a pretty nasty place. When the Night Elves said they were refusing to trade goods that were needed, that did directly create a harmful situation for the Horde. They had to get resources somewhere; unfortunately, the Alliance had control of it. You hear so much talk today about attacking countries that try to block access to certain resources that others claim they "need" (even if they have other access to it), but no one says it's evil or a war crime to attack them in order to remove the restriction of access. The Horde needed wood and all; the Alliance controlled all sources of it and opted to just pull it all off the table. So the Horde is supposed to either have their people trying to deal with a harsh environment after an elemental assault, or... what? There's no alternative. They took the crappiest land around because the Alliance didn't want it. The only resources are stone. You can maybe do some farming in Mulgore, but that's it. The Horde either has to fight for resources, or its people suffer. So it's "reasonable" to let them suffer rather than the "good guys" share the resources that they slaughtered all those Trolls centuries before in order to get access to themselves?
Yeah, no. That is unreasonable. In such a position, I'd have done the same thing. Elves want to try to make my people suffer rather than engage in fair trade? Fine, I'll have my people make *them* suffer instead. Fair trade-off, and the pointy-eared hypocrites bloody well deserved it.
Mar 23rd 2012 3:04PM And that is why, as a Horde member, I prefer Wrynn to stay on the throne. It's good to have an evil guy that I can absolutely loathe and want to murder, repeatedly.
Mar 23rd 2012 3:02PM I don't get why people say he should be tried for war crimes. What war crimes? War itself isn't a crime. He killed a general for the man attacking innocents in Stonetalon. He expressly forbid the development and use of the plague by the Forsaken, and would likely have some issues with Sylvanas if he knew they were using it. If he deserves to be tried for war crimes based on the action of underlings that he didn't approve of, then Varian needs to be right there beside him, after what the Alliance has been doing in the Barrens.
Burning Theramore to the ground isn't a war crime; it's a survival action. Theramore is being used to supply Alliance armies that have been involved in slaughtering Tauren villages (well, at least one) as well as fighting the Horde in Kalimdor, giving the Alliance a port that is much too close to Orgrimmar. It's always been a threat and the Alliance was using it as such.
Ashenvale is a situation where people act like Garrosh was doing something evil, but... what is evil there? He didn't agree with the development of the bomb (see Stonetalon) or the use of the demon fire. He did order the area attacked, but to get wood to rebuild Orgrimmar after it was burned down by elementals. The Night Elves refused to trade wood to the Horde, and they had the only source of it around. So, what, everyone living in Orgrimmar just has to go find somewhere else to live, or make straw huts, or try to carve stones and stuff? Either way, you need wood to build. The Night Elves refused it.
The deal with Cairne? Cairne accused him of something he didn't do and challenged him. Garrosh accepted. He didn't know his weapon was being poisoned and he felt bad about it later, preferring to have died than won a dishonorable fight and helped murder a man.
The man might be beating the war drums, but that's how it goes. How do you think the Alliance was built? Remember all that lore about the Elves and Humans deciding they didn't like Trolls and killing as many of them as possible to carve out their own empires? Oh, but if you kill Humans and Elves in turn to get land, that's somehow evil? Heck no! And Theramore is all about carving an area on Kalimdor for the Alliance and denying it to the Horde, a continent that most of the Alliance didn't care about when they were being warned to go there. Thrall did; he took the Orcs there to have their own place. Then the Alliance followed.
War between the two is inevitable. But that's why it's called World of Warcraft, not World of Peacecraft. Yet because the Horde has as much of a brutal leader as the Alliance now, he's evil? Seems he's only considered evil because he's an orc doing those things, but a human like Wrynn is fine. Oh, sure, you can let it go that innocents have been slaughtered. You can screw over the poor people and then kill them when they rebel rather than try to make things right. That's all fine and well, because it's a human king. Of course, if Garrosh did anything like that, his head would be called for.
Luckily, though, I've only seem that we're removing Garrosh from the throne. I haven't seen definitive word that we're killing him. I hope he isn't killed. Fine, appease the people who don't like him. But don't kill a guy with all that lore built up (and make the entire leveling experience of bouncing through history even *more* insane) without really having a reason to other than making people happy.
Mar 23rd 2012 11:59AM I thought the ilvl 200 and such were for other things, kind of like how those level 80 sets of armor were popping up for people using the Scroll of Resurrection? I think they're going to be touching up a bit more than just Pandaria (like the new Ragefire Chasm, which was never mentioned as being modified but is).
Still so much to learn...
Mar 23rd 2012 11:54AM It's the stat boosts on new items I was looking at. For example:
That's a new weapon, and it's not on par with the others. So why create new ranged weapons that aren't up to par with the polearms? Like this one:
Both are ilvl 463 but the polearm has a huge advantage in attribute boosts over the bow. They're made for MoP, so they're made to fit into the MoP system. I know it's early beta, but why have people testing everything else, and have them testing the game with weapons setups as they are now, then have to change all of that down the line? Seems like something to get out there "now," like the talent changes, new Warlock pets, all that goodness.
Hopefully I'll get my beta invite soon and be able to see for myself. :-)
Mar 23rd 2012 11:37AM Q4TQ:
Blizzard made a big deal about changing weapon slots, so that Hunters only used ranged weapons, and Mages could use wands rather than staves for example, while relics went the way of the dodo. However, in looking at the beta data dumps so far, all of the ranged weapons have significantly less stat boosts than two-handed weapons, similar to the current situation. If a Hunter is only allowed to use a ranged weapon, it should be equivalent stat bonuses to, say, a polearm. Why is these still this discrepancy?
I haven't seen any shots from the beta of the character screen with weapon slots, nor any mention of this.
Related question: What are they going to do with existing ranged weapons (bows, crossbows, guns, wands, etc.)? Wouldn't they need to be modified in order to correct this issue, lest our Hunters end up being seriously underpowered simply because they're forced to only use ranged weapons now?
Mar 22nd 2012 7:20AM Whoa... Shield and Cloak enchants that add boosts to all stats, like the chest? Those could be fun.
Go do some more digging on WOWDB, folks, it's worth it.
Mar 19th 2012 10:13AM @eLdritchZ
"There is no reason to ever return to Outland after you hit 70 and there's no reason to stay there any longer than it takes to hit 70 either..."
While I overall agree with the concept of rolling the expansions together and charging less in order to help facilitate easier entry for new players (especially as someone who recently used sales to get three new players into WoW), I have to disagree with that comment, based on personal experiences.
BC and Wrath have a lot of achievements, mounts, pets, recipes, and other goodness. Want to be able to make a Mechano-Hog? You have to build rep up with a Wrath faction to be able to buy the recipe. That's one example.
My main character has had a lot of reasons to go back through the older content. In Outland, I worked up Mag'har rep and am now on Sporregar rep to get the Diplomat title. That also opened up a bunch of mounts for me. I'm trying to get my Scryers rep up to be able to make the entire set of armor they have recipes for. I'm also working on the Netherwing to get access to their mounts. I might do the 70th-level faction rep grinds for their mounts and recipes.
Wrath has a few like that as well. Not many faction recipes, sadly. Though, if I'm recalling right, I can get a red proto-drake from Wyrmrest once I have the money, since I've got Exalted with them. Eventually, I'll also be well along with the Argent Tournament, but it's a long grind.
With the addition of transmogrification, I've found myself running a lot of old content to get the right weapons. And you can sell the ones you don't want or need (if they aren't Soulbound) to make extra money. Sometimes that's a decent way to farm gold.
I've also gotten nice mounts from speed runs of Culling of Stratholme and, um, that one raid with the black dragon surrounded by three blue dragons (to be honest, I can't remember that one's name ever, but it's an easy run for a mount).
Beyond that, there's also some fun content to check out, and plenty of lore. Northrend was a very well designed continent. I came in after Cata's release (yep, I dropped over $100 on this game to get into it), and I regret missing Northrend. That place looks amazing and is chock full of lore.
I also have an 85th level Alliance Mage (my "Alliance Main") who likes to hop into Grizzly Hills for the easy 200+ Honor that a quick few minutes will give on quests.
I could probably think of more stuff, too. It's content a lot of people will skip, yes. But there is plenty of reason to come back to it for those of us who want to, though. (Oh, and trust me, those old recipes are worth it, even though you can get better gear now. They make some sweet looking armor and weapons and stuff, which can sell well with transmogging.)
Still, not worth the full price for new players, and not necessary to charge completely for those who will experience it. Here's the reasoning: If someone's going to be dedicated enough to want to go through all that content, they'll stick around and pay the fee each month, which will build up much better than the initial purchase. (And trust me, it takes a while. Especially as you have to switch up the grinds to not go nuts. I nearly did with Cata's Molten Front; Tol Barad now beckons further to get that drake, which will take 200 marks and Exalted (though on rep, I'm not doing so bad with them, thanks to enjoying the TB battles on my server).
Dec 31st 2011 11:28AM This could be fun for some outdoor goodness, even if it wouldn't make sense in a dungeon.