Aug 4th 2009 2:58AM "And we know this, but AGAIN: Go play the game to earn them then. Why should some people get to cheat because they can't be arsed to play. I don't have time myself to be one of the 'elite' players of games, work and crap, and that's just tough s**t on me, reward those who can compete.
And THIS is the shallow position ??? FFS. How messed up is your argument that complaining about this is... shallow? And not a company that's so desperate for money they'll try and legalize cheating in their own game.... has anyone got a decent argument for this, still haven't seen one. It's funny now in a dark humour kind of way."
This is exactly right.
Buying anything extra for CO, including costume pieces, is no different from buying gold for WoW with real money, paying for powerleveling services, or paying for some guy in China to get you that T8 gear. It's cheating, plain and simple.
As it stands, even costume pieces can be considered "game-enhancing" items. In a game whose biggest selling point is the near endless costumization, limiting it makes that claim rather hollow. In other words, it turns the statement into something like this: "Be who you want to be in Champions Online! Choose from hundreds of thousands of different looks, to create the character you want to create...(Adding in fine print: extra fees for full customization required.)".
Even putting aside the argument over the money itself, this subscription model detracts from the game experience. MMOs are all about the reward. You only get what you put into it. That's why people who can spend 16 hours a day have the best gear. And that's fine. I'm a casual player. I have a full time job and other real life obligations that I have to fulfill, so I can't afford to put in much time. So my character will never be the best, because I can't dedicate my life to getting the best of everything. But I still enjoy the game. And I support the idea of time + effort = better rewards.
For example, I have a character in World of Warcraft that's been around since pre-BC. Just before they took away Battleground ranks, I managed to achieve Senior Sergeant Horde side. I know it's nowhere near High Warlord, but I was, and am still proud to have attained that rank. Now imagine if Blizzard suddenly offered the ability to purchase titles for your character for real money. Imagine how I would be pissed that my achievements, my hard work in getting that rank is all for nothing. I'm no longer unique. I no longer have the distinction of being a pre-BC character, because everyone has the title now. It takes away from the sense of accomplishment that MMOs are all about. A system like this makes nothing worth achieving. There's no sense of effort or hard work (A game, I know, but it takes dedication and effort to participate in the hardcore aspects of MMOs. I used to be able to, once upon a time.), no feeling of accomplishment. And that is what makes the game worth playing. Going that extra mile for that cool robe you want, or achieving that arena rating for that new set of PvP gear.
It's that sense of accomplishment, the "carrot" if you will, that keeps people playing. But why bother, if some lazy idiot can just pay some cash to get what I just spent two months grinding or grouping through instances to get? I might as well quit and move on to another game, one that provides just rewards for effort put in, instead of handing everything out to people who are lazy, but have the extra money to spend.
Better yet, how about the fact that I spent three years getting my warrior from pre-BC to 80? How do you think I feel when I find out a guild mate just dropped a hundred bucks to get his character to 80 in a couple weeks? Sure, I have the hundred bucks to spend myself, but what's the point? There's no sense of accomplishment, or anything.
Sure, Cryptic isn't -forcing- you to use the MTs. But what they're doing, is robbing the people who aren't willing to pay extra, of their game experience. Whether the items in question affect gameplay or not, it kills the sense of accomplishment, and makes the game less sustainable for the players who refuse to use MTs in the long run. Actually, I guess, you could say Cryptic may not be force feeding you, but they're definitely prodding your face with the spoon.
Here's what I see happening. CO launches, and it goes fine for a month or two. It's not until a little while after that MTs start to make themselves known. Players who refuse to use MTs will become frustrated at having to grind for whatever pieces of gear their fellow players just shelled out real cash for (And without the sense of accomplishment, I might add, making the grinding experience even more shallow, at best.). Cryptic will continue to create new content, most likely failing to mention half of it will be up for MTs right up until it's released, and players realize that there's something missing. A good number of non-MTers will get fed up with getting the short end of the stick, and will leave for games that are offering more without the extra cost. I believe within a year, a majority of the players still left in CO, will be the ones who got their gear via MTs. I can't claim to know the future, but I see that outcome as a very real possibility. A setup like this seems destined to fail. And I hope it does.
I never planned to get Champions Online. It looked like a good game, but the superhero bit just never did it for me (Was never a fan of comics, either.). Why am I here then, you ask? I'm here because this doesn't just affect CO, it affects the MMO/gaming industry as a whole. If this kind of system (Which is criminal, to say the least.) is allowed to succeed, imagine how many other games will pick up on it. It may even become the standard subscription model for all MMOs in the future. And that is something I won't stand for. Game developers, and publishers are becoming increasingly greedy when it comes to handling games. EA are a great example. They've shown an increasing lack of interest in the gamer themselves. It's always been a business, but there is a point where it goes from making an honest buck, to plain thievery. And Cryptic is crossing that line.
The fix is simple. Keep the MT system, and drop the subscription fee. Or, drop the MT system, and keep the subscription fee. I don't mind paying an up-front fee for the disc/box/whatever. It's the combination of a subscription fee, and the addition of an MT system that goes too far. Unless of course, Cryptic really doesn't have faith in their game, as some have been saying, in which case I hope it does fail miserably. Either Cryptic really doesn't care about the customer, or they're so blindingly stupid they failed to realize some customers have a brain.
As for the article, it is a piece of fail. To be honest, I expect that kind of fanboy/girl "No, that's not bribe money at all...just a gift from the devs..." crap from places like IGN and Gamespot, but not from a place like this (Of course, I don't frequent this site often, but still, it is rather sad.). The author of this article is ill-informed, and doesn't have her facts straight. Comparing CO to things that are entirely unrelated (Like Xbox live...had a good laugh there, let me tell you.) goes to show you how biased he/she really is. I can practically smell the bribe money from here. I didn't see any argument against Cryptic either, only a "They don't like, and I can see why." before going right back to the pro-Cryptic propaganda.
Get your facts straight, and do some research before you write an article like this. Or at least, for the love of god, have the integrity to write and unbiased article. These days any game company can make a successful game, as long as they stuff enough dollar bills down the throats of the press. Judging by the majority of replies to your article, I highly doubt i'm alone on that one.
Don't let game companies take another mile. Your the customer, and you still have a right. Stand up for yourselves. This is crap, and people shouldn't have to take it. I had a good many friends who were planning on playing this game at release. I'm pleased to say that they've all cancelled their pre-orders.
Aug 4th 2009 12:43AM "First, the only thing they confirmed will be on the MT shop is costume pieces. They said that IF they ever add anything with an in game effect that it will be available within the game without a MT. Granted they CAN add anything they want, but so can the WoW card game or any other MT shop spread out over nearly every major MMOG on the market."
Right. So if they add in items that affect gameplay, I have to probably grind or pay ridiculous prices to some player in-game to get them, instead of paying up the ass in real money? That's bullcrap. I can understand MTs for things like account management tools, but that's as far as it goes.
Even costume pieces...really. That's just pure greed. Why -earn- the item, when I can just pay real money for it without wasting effort? I believe that's called buying gold, so to speak. It's developer sponsored gold-buying and powerleveling. That's exactly what it is. It's paying them money to get something that can and should be earned yourself, in-game, through effort.
If I pay 15$ a month to have access to a game, I should get exactly the same as everyone else. There should be no extra perks for money. If they want to use the MT method, then don't charge a subscription fee.
Dual transactions are plain and utter crap. Have fun getting milked for all your money, fanboys.
Jul 23rd 2009 5:19AM @ Bossy
Consider this. WoW has all this content, because it's been out for four-plus years. It's as polished as it is, because it's been out four-plus years. It's taken years for it to get to this point, with the dual-specs, the 50+ flying mounts, etc. It doesn't just happen overnight, and it sure never launched like this. In fact, it launched as poorly, if not worse than games like WAR did, with nowhere near as much content as it has now. Not even all of WotLK has been released. They're still releasing the rest of it through content patches, so not even Wrath is a finished product.
How ignorant and blind most people are. They forgot that WoW began just as all MMOs do.
For starters, Arena is crap, and there's a lot of people that would agree with me. Just another excuse for twelve year olds to wave their e-peens around. I'm personally glad other MMOs haven't gone down that route. What Blizzard should have done, was not put in some crap deathmatch game mode, and make more Battlegrounds instead.
Swimming mounts? How is that even an argument? Who the hell cares? A swimming mount doesn't actually improve anything. It just means your mount doesn't disappear when you hit the water. This is irrelevant.
If I remember correctly, WAR has real time siege warfare, as well. And as poorly done as it is, it's still 10x more intense and realistic than the half-assed crap fest that is WoW's attempt (They blatantly ripped off WAR and DAoC with that btw.) at "RvR".
Underwater realms? Oooo, aaaaaah, big deal. That neither sells a game, or, makes a difference. I've seen cooler places in the Aion beta than anything in WoW can touch.
Turning off XP at your whim isn't really a big deal either. Most people probably don't even know about this, and more likely, don't care. A small feature that wouldn't make it on the back of a game box.
WoW lore is alright. But Blizzard keeps shitting on it in order to offer lame story excuses for ridiculous features and characters they decide to add in. Imo, WoW lore is being butchered, slowly. Also, WAR's lore is ten times more comprehensive. Before there was Warcraft, there was Warhammer. Keep that in mind. WoW's lore is a drop in a bucket of water compared to the universes of other games.
Pure leveling through PvP will never happen. As it stands, Questing will still be the fastest, and easiest route to level. Plain and simple. Very, very few people will use PvP as a way to level their character. Unlike WAR, PvP is not the focus of this game, and so it will not be a major component to leveling in the long run. It's been stated by the devs that it will not offer nearly as much XP as questing and instancing does.
The "Phasing" and "World changes" only happen on a handful of quests, most notably the Death Knight starting quest chain. It's neat the first time around, and then becomes a lame trick. Kind of like the stupid "poop" quests in BC.
"Latest PvP is all about parachuting..." I don't need to hear anymore. That sounds unbelievably stupid, not to mention ridiculous. It really proves that Blizzard ran out of ideas with BC.
"...and catapults in siege fighting on the PTR." Yeah, it's been done before, in a few other games. Just another example of Blizzard of ripping off of other games, except lately, they suck at ripping off of people. They used to be good at it.
"...dual specs making for a choise IN a dungeon to play..." AFTER you pay an ass-ton of gold to get it. It's not just given to you, therefor, I wouldn't count this as a straight up feature. Either way, some people don't even use it. Personally, it's a waste of gold, that I can use on pots, food, gems, repair bills, etc.
Who cares about in-game contests for real money? WoW is not the only game that does it. In fact, there's something called the Cyber Athletes League, among other groups, that holds game tournaments for money. Congrats, something completely unoriginal. Who's to say Aion won't have it's own PvP tournament? You never know.
As for end-game raid content, and end-game PvP? Who knows? Aion hasn't even released, and it's only been out for a year. I'm sure, that in four years, if Aion is allowed to succeed, it will be as good, if not better than WoW. We don't even know what the end-game is like in Aion, unless you're one of the few people that's played the Chinese version. Other than that, the closed beta is level-capped. I can tell you it's the most polished and well-done beta i've played (Considering that it is a localized version of a year old game.). I can also tell you it's incredibly similar to WoW, but different enough (As well as much better looking.) to be refreshing. I have not regretted placing a pre-order so far (Unlike Wrath of the Lich King, which i'm regretting.).
In short, WoW is nothing new, it never was. It has, and always will be a collection of things stolen and ripped off of other MMOs and games. The difference is that WoW did a good job ripping off of things at first, bringing them all together in a seamless package. Now, they don't even try when they copy and rip off things. All they do is recycle content from the original WoW and BC, or add in unbelievably stupid and ridiculous features (Like that parachute crap you were babbling about.). WoW was a great game in it's time (Up until BC, more or less.), but it's time is coming to an end.
Eventually, another MMO (Hopefully Aion, if not, then Star Wars: The Old Republic.) will come along that will drag all those people looking for something better from WoW. The rest, the hardcore bunch, will either stay until the servers close down, or will wake up and realize that Blizzard has been force feeding them recycled crap for years, and they will leave. You've heard it before, but Blizzard is running out of ideas. There's only so much they can do with the game.
That said, I had a blast with it while it lasted, and I will retain some fond memories I had with the game. But like most people, i'm tired of staying simply because there's nothing else out there. We're just waiting to jump ship. And I think there's two games out there that can be our salvation. Aion, and The Old Republic. I certainly hope they prove to be as good as they're shaping up to be. No game will ever "kill" WoW, but they will wound it, and quicken it's eventual death. The only thing that can kill WoW, is WoW, when it burns itself out.
Think about that, Bossy, before spouting off more of your fanboy crap.
In regards to the article, it was well written. I do agree that WoW will be "a name for the ages" so to speak. It will always be a bar, by which the quality of future MMOs will be judged. It has already been the death of other MMOs, simply because people can't get the fact that WoW is four years old, and they're comparing it to a fledgling game.
It just needs a game to take it's place on the throne.
Feb 14th 2008 1:41AM GG elitist nubtard, wtb real life pls? Get over yourself. 5$ says he bought his BT toon off ebay.
Feb 11th 2008 3:03AM *Ahem* A little -less- self centered, rather.
Feb 11th 2008 3:02AM Oh, and i'd like to add a couple things as well, seeing as how the post bothered me a little bit.
Being a casual gamer does not mean you suck. It's just a way for the elitists to excuse their own lack of an outside-of-game life.
"--get a little less freaking self-centered."
Indeed. It's not -your- game. Are you from Blizzard? Did you design the game? Did you take part in actually creating it? Are you a GM? No. That just goes to support the whole "You QQ because you don't want people in your private playground." theory. As i've stated, we all pay to play this game. So you don't get to claim ownership over something millions of people play. Perhaps being a little self-centered on your side of the argument will humble people on the other side, yes?
Feb 11th 2008 2:42AM The reason people always find reasons to fight, are because of posts like yours. I almost couldn't see the logic of your argument through the haze of elitism.
"Now we know that certain people on our servers who have no -right- (based on their skill and committment level) to just wander into the Black Temple or Mount Hyjal."
What gives -you- the right to judge who has a right to do anything in this game when they pay the same 15$ you do to play. Some people have a life, or little time to dedicate to the game simply because real life demands most of their time. I would love to be a hardcore raider, really I would. But I can only manage to raid on the weekend, that's it, and sometimes my guild doesn't even raid on the weekend. But that's life, tough crap for me. I'm happy I even get to go raiding.
I would love to see BT/MH/TK/SSC, not even for loot, just to see it. And Blizzard is offering me that chance. Good for them. I still doubt i'll even see any of it before WotLK comes out. I just don't have the time. But for people who can manage to put out a little more time than I can, they will get the opportunity.
"If you don't believe that would be frustrating, then you need to get a little less freaking self-centered."
Don't get me wrong. I see your side of it too. However, all you hardcore raiders need to state your position with a little less elitism, and a little more decency. It makes it hard not to bash on you or fight back when all we can gather from your posts are "Nubs this, nubs that. We R teh l33tz!" Perhaps stating your position decently, and diplomatically will win more support, and less opposition. That won't always be the case, but alot of the fights going on about this topic are started because of elitist posts, and casual gamers defending their right to endgame content and being tired of the brand "nub".
I can't imagine how frustrating, and long, not to mention how hard you had to work to get attuned. Really, I can't. Perhaps raiding would seem more like a job than something fun to do in an otherwise bland existance at 70. Congrats to you, and I mean that sincerely, not sarcastically. You worked through it, struggled though it, and put hours, and hours of work into it. For that, I admire you, and congratulate you for your efforts. Does that make you the greatest players in WoW? No, it does not. It just means you were able to work through the difficulties and put the time and dedication in it. It's the same as the PvPer that owns the PvEr in a duel, or the PvPer that fails horribly in instances.
Despite the lack of attunement, I highly doubt this will change too much. Guilds looking to hop suddenly into these high end raids are going to get raped mercilessly. That in turn, means that after a thorough beating in these high end raids, they'll have to go back and do it in the right order, and progress. The lack of attunement will make it shorter, but I can promise you that they will have to work just as hard for it, and maybe harder if they're "less skilled". If you see these guys spamming the BT general channel with "Omg ur guild sukz, this iz so eesy!", and they have less than t5/6 gear, then perhaps they are just that damn good, and perhaps better than you, for getting through it undergeared. But a whopping 99% of guilds looking to take advantage of the no attunement change, they are going to have to do it the old fashioned way, minus the quest lines.
This does not mean I completely agree with all of blizzard's changes. The possible addition of t6 quality gear via the badges, is a terrible change....and I believe that is what is pissing the hard core raiders off the most. That possibility will make the casual Kara raider able to do his Kara runs and gear up to t6 level. I disagree with that. -That- takes away the challenge, not the attunement. The attunement were just quests. You had to farm those raid bosses for the gear, and that was the hard part, not exactly the attunement quests (Or rather, the harder part of it.). So yes, I take the side of the hardcore raiders on that. However, I still don't think it will change things. A fully kara-geared raid cannot just waltz in, and wipe Kara down. It still requires strategy, period. So just because some idiot bought his t6 with badges, doesn't mean him and his guild can beat BT. They still need to practice, work together, and play smart.
Lastly, in an attempt to get the Hardcore raiders who are disgruntled over this, to look back on the subject in a new light, think of this. Who were the ones who got there first? You. Who were the ones that -did- the attunement quests to get in? You (Although a crappy, lame, boring title is all you get...which is a load, imo.). Who will be going to the Sunwell 25-man first? You will. And who will put it on farm first? You will. You're still more advanced than anyone else, and you're still at the forefront. Stop feeling so threatened. You're the first, and you can prove that. So let everyone else have their fun please.
Mar 10th 2007 12:44PM Thanks for taking my job blizz, you jerks. 70 warrior here, and with all the other classes that can tank better than a class that's MADE for tanking, i'm more or less out of a job. Blizz, you sirs, suck ass.
Oh, and at #19, you sir, are a nub. I'm not a control freak, nor do I have an ego, but I am a warrior, and I do think we have an entitlement to be the only main tanks. I think when your class is pretty much split between two types, and one of them is tank (you can spec that or dps...gee, which one are you gonna end up speccing in the end anyways....tank). Not only that, but 90-95% of non pally plate gear is warrior tank gear, and we have assloads of talents made just for tanking, I believe warriors are made to be MTs, and we should be entitled to being the MTs. I don't mind pallys or druids OTing, that's not my problem, it's when druids and pallys become MTs and are better at it that pisses me off.
Mar 6th 2007 3:25PM Oh wow......what a 'buff' to warriors....
That's a joke. The only decent thing out of that is the 15-20% more rage. 1% increase in criticals doesn't make that much of a difference. I guess I can't blame blizzard for making an attempt, even if it is a half-assed joke of a buff to warriors (which btw, the buff really only helps fury/arms warriors for the most part), since this is the first time in god knows how long since they tweaked warriors at all.
Seriously blizz, either properly buff warriors or just don't do it at all....
Mar 6th 2007 1:25PM I'm in a relatively small guild, a friends and family type thing. I am one of two warriors in the guild, he's a tank, i'm not. I just hit 70 a few days ago, and the big question came up "are you going to specc prot?". My answer to this was "I don't know, i'll think about it.". Now, I haven't been prot specced since somewhere in my 30s, and have since then rolled DW fury. At the moment i'm 2h arms+fury, because I picked up an amazing axe. I know in order to start raids, at least the 10 mans, i'm going to have to specc tank, and it's like a looming shadow on the horizon.
Warriors shouldn't suck to play, and it feels like that every day I play. I keep playing him because he's my first character ever and I put alot of hard work into him, but the fun isn't there anymore. An arms/fury warrior can't get instance groups, because they only want tanks or druid tanks. Playing as a tank is just as bad, because you can't pve, you can't pvp, the only thing tanks can do is take a beating for the rest of the group, not very entertaining if you ask me.
I think blizz needs to buff prot warriors so they at least have pve ability on par with dps warriors, so respeccing to prot isn't like making your char worthless outside of instances. C'mon blizz, make warriors fun again. Oh, and for the love of god, stop with the @#$#ing pally plate rewards for EVERY quest, it's ridiculous, you know warrior do do those quests, did you ever think of that you tards?!