Posts with tag WorldPvp
Here's another one on a different realm. I especially like how some instructions are clearer than others (one of the instructions says to just kill a member of a certain guild), though it's not really fair to put just one guy in the center. Then again, maybe he wants to be there-- would you enjoy having a big price on your head, and players gunning to empty your health meter? Zerging groups are apparently acceptable, and though tracking via friends or alts is allowed, I'd think that would be a gamebreaker. Apparently switching to alts is acceptable, too-- all the kills don't have to be done with the same character.
This kind of thing almost makes me wish I played on a PvP server, although I'm sure the same thing could be accomplished via duels. Fun idea, and definitely should make for some good world PvP. Makes me wonder, too, if Blizzard would ever consider player-created bounties ingame-- while there's probably a lot of potential for griefing, players who consented to it would probably have a lot of fun.
The tips are pretty straightforward: stick together (team-- where's my CS homies at?), do as much bombing as you can before heading into the town, and make sure, once you've liberated Halaa from its evil oppressors, that you stick around to keep control and defend against any counterattacks. One thing I like about Halaa is that the Wyverns make it super easy for even lower geared players to join the fight and make a real difference. Plus, the layout is done well, and I like, as we heard at BlizzCon, that Blizzard went with a pretty persistent reward-- it's no fun to conquer something just to lose it again in 5 minutes.
And Halaa, surely, will serve as a model for the next big noninstanced PvP zone coming in Wrath of the Lich King, Lake Wintergrasp. Blizzard hasn't actually designed the zone yet, but they did share their goals with us-- multiple targets and rewards, a persistent effect, and of course while Halaa doesn't have them, siege weapons will make an appearance as well.
So if you haven't tried Halaa yet, definitely check it out. From everything we've heard, this kind of thing is the future of where World PvP is headed.
The answer, says Nethaera, is that there are bigger foes to worry about in Outland, the Burning Legion definitely not the least of them. There is some good PvP to be found in Outland, although the Auchindouin nodes are usually just grabbed rather than conquered. But while Halaa in Nagrand is covered with the entrails of both sides, you still get the feeling that there, we're just fighting for a turn-in vendor. It's fun, but it doesn't have the epic, original Warcraft flavor that was so sweet in Azeroth.
I think what players want is some good old Orcs and Humans combat. Before Burning Crusade, we were asking for more World PvP, and we definitely got it-- from HFP to Zangarmarsh to Auchindouin, there are tons of ways to fight the other faction, and tons of reasons to do it. But no amount of standing around in a PvP objective feels better than sticking pointy end of sword into enemy, and that kind of ruthless attack is what players miss.
Recently, a lot of guilds have been having some problems with Doom Lord Kazzak. Not on the actual fight, which isn't that difficult. Instead, players (of the same or opposing faction) have been flying above Kazzak, getting killed from his AOE shadowbolt and healing him, effectively griefing the raid.
A forum thread from a few months ago brings up possible solutions to this problem. Generally, if you're on a PVP server, this isn't considered griefing because you can kill the other faction before they get in range. But on flying mounts, this is a bit tougher. Someone suggested staging a raid on Honor Hold/Thrallmar to distract possible attackers before you attempt, which is a nice idea. You can also send up shadow priests or mages to POM/pyro them before the fight, or just kill them until they have ridiculously long rez timers. If you're doing this on a PVE server -- or doing it to someone of the same faction on any server -- that's considered griefing and is reportable.
Other people suggest that Blizzard solve this problem through game mechanics. For example, they could make Kazzak's AOE shadowbolt target only members of the raid who engaged him, or have only deaths in that raid heal him. But this sort of ruins the idea of world bosses, where you could theoretically get everyone on an entire server to come take down the boss (or fail to take it down, as was evidenced when Highlord Kruul visited Azeroth.)
How do you think this problem should be solved?
The world PVP objectives were a nice addition in the Burning Crusade. Capturing objectives in Nagrand, Hellfire Peninsula, Zangarmarsh and Terokkar Forest provided minor buffs to everyone in the zone, as well as exchangable tokens for the capturers.
Yet today, at least on Magtheridon, barely anyone actually does the world PVP objectives. What went wrong? As best I can figure:
- The rewards aren't good enough, at least for sustaining competition. As one of my guildies put it, "Woo, you get a graveyard in a zone you probably aren't doing anything in, or some marks for items that you don't care about."
- Unless you're doing SSC and can afford to station a couple people outside to keep the graveyard, most level 70s aren't in the areas affected by world PVP, and thus have nothing to gain from the zone-wide buffs.
- In a lot of cases, it's easier to get rewards simply by letting the opposing faction capture the towers/city/arena or what have you rather than actually holding the thing. "So you captured Halaa? Great! Now quick, lose it so we can take it back!"
- Dedicated PVPers are probably spending all their time on arena teams, rather than farming in Outlands.
- And, last but not least, that one level 70 in a guild with a name like "Huge PVPness" who spends hours in HFP or Zangarmarsh, constantly camping all of the objectives and pyroblasting anyone who comes near. Amazingly enough, no matter which faction you are on, this guy will always be on the other side and you will never have any 70s of your own to rescue you.
Other than increasing the rewards to attract more people and/or tying world PVP objectives into honor and arena points, I can't think of many ways to fix the world PVP situations. Currently on my server, there's little to no town raids and organized world PVP -- "world PVP" consists of ganking and the occasional hunter on roofs.
How is the state of world PVP on your server? Can you think of anything to make the world objectives more attractive?
Zingeri of Emerald Dream has a plan. He wants to make a one-class only guild, specifically to do forty-man raids on the Alliance cities of Azeroth and drive his opponents crazy. But which class? For this, Zingeri turns to the WoW Forums for help. Each class has its pluses and minuses:
- Forty rogues could stealth and attack from the shadows in various parts of the city. As the Alliance rush to help one victim, two more rogues will gank in other quarters. It's death by a thousand cuts!
- Forty warlocks could summon forty infernals ... or forty doomguards! Or maybe forty Seeds of Corruption in the auction house. Plus, forty DOTs on a boss could really do some damage.
- Forty mages could sheep just about everyone in town.
- Forty paladins could, in a coordinated effort, attempt to Divine Intervention each other all at the same time. I have no clue what would happen. Also, a raid of forty druids or pallies would be able to tank, DPS and heal -- the only raids that would actually be able to down a boss.
- Forty balance druids ... well, they could stealth into the trade quarter. Then they could unstealth and immediately pop into moonkin form and summon their 120 treeants! Chaos ensues.
- Forty shamans could drop 160 totems. With a whole ton of micromanagement, they could probably bring Ironforge to a standstill. And if they died, they could all ankh at once!
I can't really think of anything good for forty hunters, warriors or priests. What do you think of this idea? Totally insane, or so crazy it just might work?
The other issue Gustav has is an upcoming change that will make dead players' bodies fall to the ground after death, instead of remaining suspended there in the air like, as Drysc says, "a magic trick gone wrong." Blue's word on this one is that it's just not "natural" to leave players in the air-- Gustav thinks it's because Blizzard wanted to give people a break on repairs (because now, players left in the air have to rez at the spirit healer), but Drysc says it's just artistic-- let the bodies hit the floor, man.
But Gustav's more interesting idea is that every class should have an anti-air ability-- a way to bring your PvP opponent out of the air. To my mind, that kind of thing just opens the door to griefing-- actual air-to-air combat seems like a better idea to me. Drysc's response to the news that PvPers are avoiding a fight by flying sounds about right: staying on a mount when someone below is taunting you just makes you chicken. If you're really interested in world PvP, then get off the mount-- it's time to drop down and throw down.
With the disappearance of dishonorable kills, many people are hoping for the return of innovative world PvP. As an example of "innovative world PvP," and how angry people get when it actually occurs, we present last month's Mal'Ganis Flightmaster Hostage Crisis.
Mal'Ganis is a fairly overcrowded PvP server, hosting both some of the world's best guilds (Ret, Elitist Jerks) and some of the world's best drama (the guildmaster who threatened to kill a guy who gquit after spending a month in the hospital.) One of the native Mal'Ganis guilds is Goon Squad, a giant Horde crew that was formed from readers of http://www.somethingawful.com. Goon Squad is known for pranks and odd ideas, the most well-known of which is their "I Summon People Off Cliffs" warlock PvP video.
On the night of November 4, Goon Squad snuck into Theramore and kited away the Alliance flightmaster. Soon after, they posted a ransom demand on the Mal'Ganis realm forums: If the Alliance bought out two Lightforge Belts listed for 1500g each in the neutral auction house, Goon Squad would free their hostage. If not, wrote Stuul from Goon Squad, "It would be very unfortunate if we were forced to hold him for the weekend while you try to raid." To encourage the Alliance to pay up, they also camped the Ratchet boat and kidnapped the Auberdine flight master.
A large group of Alliance joined in the fun and vowed to hunt down their beloved flightmasters rather than pay the ransom. Goon Squad soon posted that the hostages were in Bael'Dun Keep in the southern Barrens, and challenged Alliance to come and get them.
Unfortunately for the Horde, enough people complained to GMs that the incipient world PvP battle was nipped in the bud. Five hours into the hostage crisis, GMs struck down the kited flightmasters with instant Curse of Dooms, killing them and allowing Alliance to fly free in Kalimdor once more. "Your flight masters were slaughtered by a overexcited GM," Arktdnonoobs wrote. "We had no part in their deaths."
Goon Squad received commendations from both Horde and Alliance on several servers. Even a CM on the Customer Service Forum, Batta, noted that while the GMs had to kill the flight masters to keep them from being "lost", he admired Goon Squad's ingenuity in pulling off the caper.
So is this an example of innovative world PvP, or a bunch of Horde being jerks? Do you have any plans to spice up your server's PvP in the future?
Now, Neth says that the reason DHKs are out is because the devs tried leaving them out, and apparently it worked on the test realms. Some NPC levels have been raised, and some have been lowered, so there may be other incentive in game to keep people from mauling, say, Crossroads on a regular basis. Also, there are some new World PVP options in the works-- don't count those out. But Neth also says that things are constantly being monitored-- if city raids become an issue, the situation will be revisited. As a few players point out, however, (and I agree), the test realm players aren't the day-to-day players. People will do almost anything in this game, so I expect raids to show up on a pretty regular basis, even on PVE servers.
Not that you need to get rid of DHKs to do a massive raid. MBAzeroth reports that the Penny Arcade Alliance (named after the comic, duh) on the Dark Iron server pulled off a big one. Alliance coordinated and invaded the capital cities while running distraction raids on Brill, Tarren Mill, and Crossroads. The casualty list is shocking: Cairne, Thrall, Vol'jin, Varimathas, and almost Sylvanas before the server got downed by the raid. Now that's some good World PVP. Are we looking at something like this every week when DHKs go bye-bye? One can only hope.
World of Raids has a great preview of Nagrand -- covering both the gear you can get there and how to get it. The zone sounds to be a PvP playground -- though obtaining gear there will require both PvE and PvP work within the zone. The rewards are nice blues (with a single epic jewel) that seem to be not too difficult to obtain, at least not compared to current PvP gear standards. They are purchased with tokens, one type of token acquired from killing opponents in PvP within the zone (one Halaa battle token per kill) and the other type acquired by killing NPC opponents within the zone (Crystal Powder, which drops from NPCs, is turned in for Halaa research tokens). The gear itself costs between 20 to 40 of the battle tokens as well as 1 or 2 research tokens (requiring 20 to 40 Crystal Powder), with the epic costing 500 battle tokens. So I'd imagine that a few hours of PvP could well result in several pieces of gear, if you were after it.
To access buy gear and obtain the research tokens, your faction must have access to the neutral city of Halaa in the center of the zone. To do this, you must kill off all the guards and occupy the city -- a "bomb run" to slaughter the guards shown in the video above. Such fun!
And for at least one player, that means it's time to go crazy. Peegee on Arthas has promised to make Mulgore his personal ganking ground. Most players agree that DKs make any sort of World PVP all but impossible, but you have to remember why they were implemented in the first place: to keep PVPers away from quest and trainer NPCs that lowbies need around to level. Sure, you may think that implementing DKs wasn't the best way to solve that problem (I sure do), but you have to admit that since DKs were brought into the game, lowbies have always had their quest and trainers NPCs around to talk to.
In the first thread, Neth says that the devs do realize that, at first, a lot of players will be making up for lost time when DKs disappear again. For at least those first few days, I would imagine that the Crossroads might be a little overrun with overzealous Alliance. But then again, Neth says adjustments will be made "when necessary," so maybe the devs have something else up their sleeve-- maybe some NPCs will be invulnerable or, as a few players suggest, have "spirit stand-ins" to return quests even while dead. At any rate, start sharpening those swords-- as of the next patch, here's hoping it's open season on NPCs again.
There are three zones covered here, and while the first two, Hellfire Peninsula and Zangamar Marsh, don't sound much different from what we have now in Eastern Plaguelands (the only difference being that in the Marsh, holding control points grants you not only a buff but access to a midzone graveyard), the third, in Nagrand, sounds much more interesting. Halaa is an entire controllable city held by whatever faction has grabbed it lately, and not only are there, Curse says, NPCs inside to turn in tokens and quests, but outside, on the four bridges that act as access points to the inner island, you'll be able to find "Wyvern Posts" at which you can hire flying mounts to use as bombadiers. Not only that, but there are guards inside the city that fight with or against you. Now that sounds cool-- it's like a whole other battleground, but in an overworld zone.
Curse also mentions new rewards specifically for World PVP. Just as you can loot turn-in tokens from fallen players now in AV, there will be new tokens and purchaseable, zone-based buffs and items for World PVP rewards as well. There's also a few notes about Arena PVP, but I get the feeling that until we see some real maps for the setups Blizzard is planning, we won't have a good idea of what kind of strategic play they're looking for. Still, this is definitely more than we've ever heard about the new World PVP before, and it's great to see that Blizzard is trying to formalize and encourage the gigantic battles that used to be a part of World PVP in the past.
- Tseric says that certain Crowd Control abilities (of course no specifics yet) will be downgraded, if not disabled in Arena PVP. Spells like Polymorph or Sleep may have a 15-20 second duration when used in PVE, but only a 5-10 second duration in Arena PVP. This is meant to "prevent extended removal [of players] from combat."
- On a question about how PVP ranks will show in BC, Drysc says there will be a title menu in the UI, and that players will be able to choose up to their highest rank to display. He also says there will be more titles for Arena PVP, as well as other titles through "various other means." World PVP? PVE titles? Last names? Your guess is as good as ours.
- We've covered mount changes in 1.12.1 pretty extensively but in case you still have questions, Hortus has all the answers you need.
- A player asks if flying mounts will make players immune to attacks, but Neth says they haven't decided for sure yet. This was the first concern that came to mind when I saw the Druids' new flying form-- will Druids have an instant escape plan?
- Considering all the classes seem to be getting pets in the expansion, Eskar has an idea for what to give rogues.
- And can't remember where I heard this rumor (I'm thinking it was one of our esteemed commenters?), but rumor (only rumor!) has it Blizzard has dropped
the expansion pricethe game's price from $39.99 to $19.99** (updated-- see below). If that's true, it pretty much ensures that World of Warcraft will move from seven million players to something literally engulfing the known universe, thus creating some sort of new, superuniverse in which multidimensional beings shout jokes about Chuck Norris and Steve Irwin at each other while other beings yell at them to "stop spamming LFG."
Update: Our commenters, God bless 'em, have confirmed the price drop, kind of. Blizzard will be dropping the original game to the price of $19.99-- the expansion will be $39.99. But that still means the game will be cheaper than ever to play, which means we're probably due for all that multidimensional universe stuff. Plan 2007 accordingly.
Of course, with the onset of dishonorable kills and in-game civilians, pretty much all of that finished. No self-respecting PVPer would dare to tarnish their record with DKs (with some exceptions, of course), and even high levels, met with resistance by NPCs, will often give up the ghost (literally) rather than continue the war where it's not supposed to go. But are we better off for it? Or should DKs be done away with?
Not surprisingly, the majority of players (the really vocal ones on the forum, anyway) want them gone. There are a few benefits to keeping players from attacking certain NPCs-- a few players have suggested keeping DKs only in lowbie, 10-20 areas, which would probably leave Crossroads off the list. Other players say them's the breaks-- if a 60 undead mage decides to make things hard for people turning in quests in Goldshire, all fair in love and Warcraft. But the majority of players agrees that even on PVE servers, the DK system has to change. There's a war on, after all, and if you can't kill the other side in a war, well, what can you do? Those calling for getting rid of all DKs say the World PVP options Blizzard has announced (delivering dust in Siithilius and babysitting towers elsewhere) aren't enough, but when has Blizzard ever steered us wrong in gameplay? Before the BGs came out, players whined, but now, especially with cross realm battlegrounds coming next patch, BGs are humming daily.
But worry not, anti-DKers: Blue has announced that the beta for the Burning Crusade will be DK-free. Could this be the beginning of in-world PVP awards, all-faction buffs for high-level kills, and temporary titles for those who take the lead in battle? Of course, Blue's not saying any more. They always do that, don't they?