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Posts with tag dkp

Officers' Quarters: My pre-Wrath wish list

Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.

When World of Warcraft launched, a guild was a chat channel, a tabard, and some very basic UI features like ranks and the message of the day. It's nearly four years later, and very little thus far has been added to the game to help guilds. So far we've gotten one major feature: guild banks. It was almost absurd that banks weren't part of the feature set for guilds when the game went live, and the hoops guilds jumped through to stash and distribute their important items were equally absurd. So while banks were a welcome addition, I wouldn't call their implementation a step forward so much as a step to catch up with what's adequate.

Now we're getting calendars -- yet another essential feature that should have been part of the UI since Day 1. I don't want to sound unappreciative. I'm hopeful that this feature will be sound enough to use and I'll be thrilled if we can dump Guild Event Manager or Group Calendar for something that's built into the software (with a grateful farewell /salute to the makers of those mods!).

But in terms of running a guild using in-game features, we're still in bare-bones territory here. Is it possible that Blizzard has more surprises up their sleeve for officers in Wrath? Here's what I'd love to see them implement:

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Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)

Forum post of the day: Vicarious' legend

That was odd. I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of hunters suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened.


It was inevitable, it had to happen. Someday, the legendary bow, Thori'dal, the Stars' Fury would be handed over to a Rogue. It so happens this fantastic weapon dropped to the Vicarious guild of Area 52. Analogkid was awarded the bow in the company of two Hunters. Needless to say the Hunters are upset, and the post brought about an outcry from many posters along with a considerable amount of drama. Many believe that this bow belongs in the hands of Hunters, regardless of the situation.

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Filed under: Hunter, Rogue, Guilds, Raiding, Forums, Forum Post of the Day

Breakfast Topic: Guild hosting

Liss on LJ wants to know, as do we: What is the best place to host a guild website? She's had good experiences with Guildomatic, while apparently lots of people like using Guild Launch instead. Most of the guilds I've been a part of have almost all used GuildPortal, but there are tons of sites out there, and even many more not linked here. What kind of experiences have you had at various guild hosting sites?

And what exactly do you expect from them? It seems that pretty standard features on most guild sites have to include a blog of some kind (to track your guild's kills), a message board for both talking to the public and planning private raids, some time of roster software (powered by the Armory or otherwise), and a DKP tracker of some kind. Of course, even if you don't go with a hosting service, there are also lots of different apps that will let you do all of this on your own, as long as you're HTML and maybe even PHP ready.

I'll tell you one thing I'd like to see in guild hosting sites that I haven't yet: a design that's actually easy on the eyes. I'm really proud you downed Vashj, guys, but next time, try raiding some web design fundamentals.

Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Guilds, Breakfast Topics, Forums, Hardware

Breakfast Topic: Rerolling our roots

The question arose in the WoW official forums "Why do they call it 'rolling?'" This is of course in reference to creating new characters. The original poster pointed out that there really is no rolling involved just selection. I'm sure its obvious to most of us that the terms comes from pen and paper role playing games where we roll dice to determine character statistics and sometimes other attributes. But it got me thinking of terms that we use for WoW that came from other games:

  • The battleground Zerg comes from Starcraft's Zerg race which was kind of a fast, battle driven faction.
  • DKP is short for Dragon Kill Points, a term that dates back to EverQuest when the main bosses were dragons.
  • Nerf means to make things less powerful, and refers to the Nerf brand of spongy toys.
  • For some reason we refer to instances as dungeons, despite the fact that Stockades is the only actual dungeon that comes to mind. Though I have to admit, even in D&D dungeon crawls were typically done in caves or castles.

It's surprising how terms seem to stick with us even when they're obsolete. Speaking of rolling, when was the last time you actually rolled down a window in a car?

It's good to go back and remember out gaming roots. I'm sure there are many more crossover terms, and terms from the World of Warcraft lexicon like Leroy Jenkins, will out live Azeroth. For the life of me I can't find the etiology of the term "twink." What else am I missing?

Filed under: Fan stuff, Breakfast Topics, Lore, Forums

Last Resort gets first Thori'dal drop on live realms

Now that right there is what you call a bow. The very first legendary ranged weapon ever, Thori'dal, the Stars' Fury, has dropped on the live realms, from Kil'jaeden as expected. Last Resort on EU Boulderfist is the lucky guild, and Stefang is the lucky Hunter (seen here with his bow and Kalecgos) -- feel free to check his Armory page, as long as you're careful not to drool on the keyboard.

Thori'dal, as you probably know by now, shoots its own ammunition, which means that not only did Stefang win a nice bow, but he now has an extra bag slot (something all Hunters probably want even more than a legendary weapon). There's no word on how the giveaway went down (we're guessing DKP, and if Stefang did anything less than cash in everything he had, he got this thing for a bargain), but grats to both him and Last Resort for a very, very nice piece of loot.

Now, about getting that other legendary item back together for Northrend...

Thanks to everyone who sent this in!

Filed under: Hunter, Items, Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, News items, Raiding

Forum post of the day: Docking DKP

To function properly, all guilds must have rules for participation, gear, and general order. Since the ancient MMORPG days, many guilds have assigned Dragon Kill Points (DKP) to players for their participation in raids and events. The points are turned in for gear rewards from raids. Some guilds dock DKP for members that do not meet their standards. Aerte of Blackrock has questioned the wisdom of his guild's policy on this practice for a member that had regularly violated the rules.

The conundrum begins with the statement. "Recently we had a member quit who during the course of his rather brief stay managed to have about 130 DKP docked for various infractions. Not showing up specced properly, gems unacceptable, enchants unacceptable or non-existent, bad attitude....etc..." The original poster expressed that this may not be the best way to keep players in line.

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Filed under: Items, Analysis / Opinion, Guilds, Raiding, Forums

DKP in WoW, more common than you think!

DKP('Dragon Kill Points' or 'Dungeon Kill Points') is a term that carries a lot of weight with it. Some people hate them, some people love them. Some people don't understand them, others can't live without them. My raid jokingly referred to them as 'HFP' or 'Happy Fun Points' before implementing them, simply because it was a term that had less of a negative spin on it. Amusingly enough, the term has stuck for the last two and a half years.

It only recently dawned on me that the World of Warcraft has its own built-in DKP system to some extent, based off of set item prices determined by the raid leader. They're called Badges of Justice. Blizzard is your Raid Leader. For every raid or heroic boss you kill, you get a Badge of Justice. How many badges you earn is roughly based on the difficulty of the encounter, from one to three badges.

While not everyone likes the Badge of Justice system, most people do. Being able to accumulate badges in new places for new rewards is exciting! When it comes down to it, they're just DKP. Instead of being tally marks on a chart somewhere, they're material possessions in your bags.

Naturally, there are many different DKP systems out there, as varied as the raids that use them. It's possible I'm the last person on Azeroth to realize it, but I simply found it interesting that even Blizzard has implemented pseudo-DKP.

Those of you out there that loathe the idea of DKP, do Badges of Justice make you feel any better about it? Worse?

Filed under: Items, Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, Breakfast Topics, Raiding

Officers' Quarters: Casual raiding that works

Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes
Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.

OK, guys, here it is: the column you've all been begging me to write. If e-mail had weight, I'd have approximately 1.5 tons of it about how to take a casual guild into the raiding endgame. You want to know how to motivate people, which I've covered, how to keep it from getting too "hardcore," which I've also already covered, and how to succeed where so many others have failed. It's that last bit I'm going to focus on. Since so many have written in about this, I'm not going to quote any particular person's e-mail. So I'll just say this to all who wrote me: Thank you for reading the column and having faith in me that I can explain it. We'll see if that faith was well placed or not!

Send Scott your guild-related questions, conundrums, ideas, and suggestions at You may find your question the subject of next week's Officers' Quarters! For more WoW Insider coverage of raiding, see our raiding directory.

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Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)

15 Minutes of Fame: Leadership by committee

15 Minutes of Fame is our look at World of Warcraft players of all shapes and sizes – both the renowned and the relatively anonymous.

At first glance, the tip 15 Minutes of Fame first received from Nocturne on the Khadgar realm appeared to be one of that "Interview my GM; he's the coolest evah!" kind of tips: "very helpful to all players"; "truthful"; "anxious to make compromises that suit all players"; blahblahblah ... But buried near the end of the note, we spotted this little gem: "We have a rotating GM system which sees all officers take a spot in the leader chair! Weird, huh?"

Being insatiably curious about anything even remotely "Weird, huh?" -- as well as harboring a voyeuristic fascination with what most people would consider the train wreck of leadership by committee – we hit the Reply button. What we found at the other end: a fun-loving group of European raiders that rotates administrative tasks so that everyone gets the chance to relax and enjoy the fruits of their common effort. We visited with a half-dozen of the officers' cadre to uncover the secrets of their success.

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Filed under: Guilds, Features, Interviews, 15 Minutes of Fame

Getting your loot priorities straight

Every successful guild that I've ever seen has some sort of loot distribution system. Whether it's a major DKP system with a dozen small caveats, or a slow moving loot council, some way, some how, all guilds get the job done handing out every day loot in a fair manner. But there comes a time, a dark and evil time, a time when brothers and sisters fight against each other, cats and dogs live together, and all things foul spill forth from the bowels of the Earth. There comes a time when special loot priorities come into effect.

Many, many guilds have broken up over this. I've nearly been in a few myself. Back in the days of pre-bc, the first major loot drama came in Molten Core over the Hunter's ability Tranquil Shot. While now a days there are not really any single items that makes people fight tooth and nail over, there are a few bosses that drop some important equipment that might only be killed a few times.

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Filed under: Items, Virtual selves, Guilds, Raiding, Alts

Officers' Quarters: Loot whores -- Are you their pimp?

Every Monday Scott Andrews contributes Officers' Quarters, a column about the ins and outs of guild leadership.

Let's talk about loot. Is any subject more controversial in the entire game? After all, the game itself is centered around loot, like it or not. Loot opens doors and conquers enemies. Without it, you'll only see a fraction of what the game has to offer at max level. Without it, you're going to struggle in battlegrounds and the arena. It's the only way to advance your character at the level cap. Currently, the best loot in the game essentially advances your character by 81 levels, to 151 (not counting certain legendary warblades). So it's no wonder that so much guild drama is the direct result of decisions about loot.

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Filed under: Officers' Quarters (Guild Leadership)

Suvega's DKP

Yesterday we talked about various loot-distribution systems. This prompted Suvega to write in and show us the DKP system he uses as guildmaster for his guild (Anarchy on Archimonde). I think it's very clever, so I'd like to tell you all about it. My own guild uses a standard zero-sum DKP, which I've been happy with so far, but I think this might be better.

DKP is awarded to each member as follows:
  • One point for showing up on time
  • One point per boss kill (one more point if the boss goes down on the first try of the night)
  • One point for staying to the end of the raid
  • Triple points are earned if this is a "learning raid" on which many wipes will probably occur
Each item has a fixed price (generally between 25 and 35 DKP). When an item drops, everyone who wants it whispers "bid" to the loot distributor (who I think is the GM, but it wouldn't have to be). The person who has the most DKP wins the item, and the item's price is deducted from her DKP.

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Filed under: Items, Guilds, Raiding

The ultimate loot distribution system?

I've been toying with the idea of putting together my own Kara raid, so when I saw the World of Matticus suggestions for loot distribution I read through them with eager interest. If you are unfamiliar with the concept of DKP, or Dragon Kill Points (a phrase harkening back to the days of Everquest), essentially every person attending the raid gets points based upon what bosses they participate in downing. Each DKP system is very different, from the basic to the complicated, and some are so complex that they require mods to organize.

In the raid I was most recently in, they used zero-sum DKP, supposedly designed to keep people from hording the points, but it ended up being much like what they seemed to be trying to avoid, at least from what I saw. Matticus suggests that we modify the DKP systems, blend them together, and add a very important element: attendance. I also like his ideas on incentives for the spending of DKP, with discounts given for item pieces that are below the guild's current raid progression. It's an idea that allows the newer members of the raid to build their sets without having to wait the long period it normally requires to build up sufficient points.

I'm still not sure how I would feel about Matticus' idea of a guild hierarchy, where certain classes get items first, but I suppose that is mostly because I play a mage. I do, however, see the value in building up the gear of those that are most central to the raid's success, so I guess I see his point after all. Personally, I think his ideas on DKP are sound enough to try. Whether or not they can be implemented by a brand new raid leader remains to be seen.

Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Raiding

Leave the guild, take the loot

There's an interesting ethical debate (yeah, I know) going on on the WoW General Forum. Null of Nazjatar asks, "If I have lots of dkp and am looking to leave the guild, should I spend it before i gquit?"

A lot of people piped up with opinions on both sides. On one hand, DKP is the "pay" you get for raiding, and the effort you put in should be rewarded. If you put in notice to leave a job, you still get to spend the money you earned, right? On the other hand, blowing your DKP on items that other want and then leaving for a better guild can be seen as unethical. Not only are you leaving your teammates high and try, you took items that could help compensate for your loss and brought them to another guild. I've been present at a few surprise /gquits that took place immediately after a raid where the quitter bid on items, and it's always left a sour taste in my mouth.

I can see both sides here, so I went to my first recourse in WoW debates: my guild. After I reassured them that I was not planning on /gquitting after Kara, six of six people who responded said it was the right of the /gquitter to spend their DKP on upgrades before leaving. Ebolah, a mildly insane officer who is working on five-boxing his third one-class team to 70, put it this way: "If you raid with the guild and earn DKP, you have earned it and should be able to spend it and be rewarded for the time you put in, leaving or not." A warlock, Zorgan, said: "Morally? Probably not, but eh ... I'd bet most people would. I think the simple solutilon is to forward all loots to me. Forever."

Personally, I've never been faced with /gquitting in a raiding guild, so I don't know what I'd do. If I had to guess, I'd probably stop showing up for raids after I'd made the decision to leave, and thus wouldn't have an opportunity to blow my DKP. Is it ethical for someone to blow their DKP if they've already decided to leave the guild?

Filed under: Items, Virtual selves, Guilds, Raiding

Ask WoW Insider: When is it fair to upgrade an epic?

Welcome back to Ask WoW Insider, where each week we publish one of your questions. Last week we had some fun imagineering new battlegrounds, and this week we turn our attention once again to an issue near and dear to our hearts: loot. This week's question comes from Chris, who wants to know about etiquette regarding rolling or bidding for an epic drop to replace an item in a slot that is already an epic:
All DKP ideas aside, when is it fair to upgrade an epic over an epic?

Here is the situation: We are running Karazhan and the Staff of Infinite Mysteries drops. I, being a mage, have the epic spell blade form Thrallmar and epic off hand I got from turning in badges of justice. In addition to my weapons I have dropped all money making professions to take up tailoring and enchanting and power leveled them up to get the best gear and enchants possible to make raiding easier. Everyone else has just started doing the same thing finally and are a bit slow in the progress.

Now, every DPS squishy wants the staff because it's an obvious upgrade to their blue weapon and I want it because it's an upgrade for boss fights because of the +hit and secondary stats. Would it be fair to roll for the staff seeing as how I have worked hard to get where I am at and still consider the staff to be an upgrade? Or should I just let the people that haven't worked as hard to get geared out take it in hopes it helps out the raid progression a bit faster.

My opinion is that passing on loot to help those less geared out is like taxing the smart to help the dumb. Perhaps you have a better theory.
What say you, readers? What factors should you consider when bidding or rolling on an epic drop that will replace a piece of gear on your character that is already shiny purple? Should you gear up those in blues first to help your guild, or is your dkp yours to spend on whatever you like with a free conscience? How much of an upgrade does it need to be to justify taking it over the lesser-geared?

Join us next week for another Friday edition of Ask WoW Insider, and don't forget that we need your questions to make it happen! Send us what you want to know at ask AT wowinsider DOT com.

Filed under: Items, Raiding, Ask WoW Insider

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