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Posts with tag dragon-kill-points

Breakfast Topic: Is DKP starting to become obsolete?

I was trundling through Wowpedia the other day for some background reading on loot systems (I'm writing a follow-up to Robert's not-so-original WoW miscellany) when I was struck by a sudden thought: I literally cannot remember the last time I saw a guild on my server advertising a DKP system or common variant like Suicide Kings. They advertise what level they are and what type of players they're looking for, the kind of raid content they do if they're raiders, if they do Rated Battlegrounds, and all that good stuff. But only very rarely is DKP ever mentioned, rarer still with a 10-man raiding guild.

I trawled through the guild recruitment forums to see if this was actually part of a wider trend, but don't know what to think. The 25-man raiding guilds are the most likely to say they use a DKP system or variant; 10-man raiding guilds nearly all use loot councils, at least from my (admittedly brief) survey of the current advertisements.

Is this also happening on your realms, or have I gotten this wrong? We all know that every DKP system has its issues and that administrating them is one of the larger headaches for guild leaders. 10-man raiding is also more popular than 25-man raiding right now, and it probably doesn't make sense for a guild to obsessively track DKP for a 10-man where most players probably aren't rolling on the same stuff. Is DKP dying, or is it just a sign of the popularity of the 10-man model?

Filed under: Breakfast Topics

The sudden popularity of GDKP

We've been seeing this GDKP thing sneak up on the forums and elsewhere a lot lately, and while Scott has mentioned it (in a somewhat disparaging way, in fact), we haven't really taken a good look at it yet. So let's do so. GDKP stands for Gold DKP, which is kind of a mishmash of acronyms. DKP, or Dragon Kill Points, are a very popular way of determining loot division in a raid -- the concept dates back to earlier MMOs, and involves players earning points per boss kill that they can then spend on gear. We've talked about other DKP systems before. But rather than awarding loot based on arbitrary points, Gold DKP, as you may have guessed, instead gives loot to the player willing to pay the most gold... to the other players in the raid.

The way it works is this: You go into an instance, say Naxx, and everyone knows ahead of time that it is a "GDKP run," or a "gold run," or a "cash run." You down the first boss, and Webbed Death drops. The master looter then takes bids of gold on the item (this can be done via public chat or via an addon), and whoever bids the most gold gets the item. The person who wins then pays that amount of gold (some raids have minimum bids of, say, 100g) to "the pot," and the raid moves on. Another boss drops, another item drops -- usually all items, including recipes and mats, are auctioned off -- and another high bid goes into "the pot." Then, at the end of the raid, the pot is evenly split among all members. Everybody who joined in on the raid gets an even share of the bidded gold, including people who got no items, or the Mr. Moneybags who won them all.

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Filed under: How-tos, Fan stuff, Guilds, News items, Economy, Instances, Raiding

SWAPS loot system offers another DKP option

I'm finding myself really fascinated with loot systems lately -- the old DKP is pretty good, but even that has drama, and it seems like there's a lot of interesting ideas going around about how to evenly and fairly distribute loot amongst a group of people. OutDPS has a writeup about a loot system called SWAPS. Instead of sending "points" off into the void, you actually "give" your spent points to everyone else in the raid. You start out with 1,000 free points (though those are distributed over time, to prevent new players from having tons of points early on) and then when an item comes up, everyone bids on it: the highest bid gets the item and the points they bid are spread around to the rest of the raiders. In other words, if someone in a 10-man raid bids 500 points and wins an item, those 500 points are distributed evenly amongst the other nine raiders. While the winner loses the 500 points they spent, everyone else gets a bonus 56 points. The person winning the item "pays" for the privilege of taking it by beefing up everyone else's point totals.

It is probably not a perfect system (there's no way to reward points for anything other than loot dropping, for one thing, and while some people have modified the rules to create a separate bidding pool for class items, the basic system doesn't cover class or offspec items), but it does solve a lot of the questions of fairness, and it keeps everything pretty above-board: if you are low on points, the only reason would be that either you just started raiding, or that you've just spent a lot of points on an item. There's an addon, of course, and it will give you all sorts of reports and updates on where all of your raiders are at in the system. If you've been poking around for a DKP system that is based on being open and fair, it might be worth trying out in your guild.

Filed under: Items, Analysis / Opinion, Tips, Guilds, Add-Ons, Instances, Bosses

The ins and outs of the Shroud Loot System

Both Blessing of Kings and Unbearably HoT have posts up talking about the Shroud Loot System, a looting system designed to serve as an alternative to the standard DKP setups. The main point of SLS is that unlike DKP, it rewards points not just for downing content, but for just attending content, so that the focus is more on attendance and participation rather than progress (which, you'd assume, would eventually come if people are constantly showing up). Instead of kills, points are awarded at the beginning and the end of raids (no matter how much progress is made), and then when an item drops, players can bid points either by "Shrouding," spending half of their DKP (whoever spends the most gets the item), or by bidding a low fixed cost (and then they roll off for the item, with whoever wins paying the low fixed cost). BoK has a great example of how it works: either you spend half your points (if you have the most overall DKP, you're guaranteed to win) or you take your chances against a dice roll.

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Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Instances, Raiding

DKP pitfalls and how to jump them

Kree's got a nice set of posts about some of the more advanced problems with a DKP system in his guild (he calls them pitfalls, which works very well as a metaphor). I've never been part of a really serious DKP system, but just like with any other economy, DKP can lead itself to imbalances if you aren't careful with how people are getting and spending points.

Inflation is definitely a problem I've seen in other guilds -- usually, with DKP, you have a few very consistent raiders, and everyone else can fall behind. And eventually you get a few folks with tons of DKP, so much so that they can outspend everyone else and basically dictate how gear drops. Kree's solutions are good, though -- he offers up "point rot" (points devalue over time, so you can't save up tons of them at once), and a point cap (though even that can cause problems, as people are forced to spend DKP on gear they don't need rather than losing them). The other issues, collusion and upbidding, don't happen quite so often (both of those require players to be rather malicious, and in guilds where everyone knows which gear they should and shouldn't use, you don't usually have an issue), but he's got some good solutions there as well.

DKP was designed
to make sure passing out drops is fair, and Blizzard has put all sorts of rules and restrictions in the game to try and get raiders the gear they need without a lot of fighting. As long as your guild remembers that there's always more gear to go around and that no one piece is worth stealing or causing trouble over, a good, balanced DKP system can help you avoid these alligator-filled pitfalls pretty easily.

Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, How-tos, Virtual selves, Guilds, Odds and ends, Raiding

Forum post of the day: Docking DKP


To function properly, all guilds must have rules for participation, gear, and general order. Since the ancient MMORPG days, many guilds have assigned Dragon Kill Points (DKP) to players for their participation in raids and events. The points are turned in for gear rewards from raids. Some guilds dock DKP for members that do not meet their standards. Aerte of Blackrock has questioned the wisdom of his guild's policy on this practice for a member that had regularly violated the rules.

The conundrum begins with the statement. "Recently we had a member quit who during the course of his rather brief stay managed to have about 130 DKP docked for various infractions. Not showing up specced properly, gems unacceptable, enchants unacceptable or non-existent, bad attitude....etc..." The original poster expressed that this may not be the best way to keep players in line.

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Filed under: Items, Analysis / Opinion, Guilds, Raiding, Forums

DKP in WoW, more common than you think!

DKP('Dragon Kill Points' or 'Dungeon Kill Points') is a term that carries a lot of weight with it. Some people hate them, some people love them. Some people don't understand them, others can't live without them. My raid jokingly referred to them as 'HFP' or 'Happy Fun Points' before implementing them, simply because it was a term that had less of a negative spin on it. Amusingly enough, the term has stuck for the last two and a half years.

It only recently dawned on me that the World of Warcraft has its own built-in DKP system to some extent, based off of set item prices determined by the raid leader. They're called Badges of Justice. Blizzard is your Raid Leader. For every raid or heroic boss you kill, you get a Badge of Justice. How many badges you earn is roughly based on the difficulty of the encounter, from one to three badges.

While not everyone likes the Badge of Justice system, most people do. Being able to accumulate badges in new places for new rewards is exciting! When it comes down to it, they're just DKP. Instead of being tally marks on a chart somewhere, they're material possessions in your bags.

Naturally, there are many different DKP systems out there, as varied as the raids that use them. It's possible I'm the last person on Azeroth to realize it, but I simply found it interesting that even Blizzard has implemented pseudo-DKP.

Those of you out there that loathe the idea of DKP, do Badges of Justice make you feel any better about it? Worse?

Filed under: Items, Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, Breakfast Topics, Raiding

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