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Posts with tag greed

The etiquette of rolling on gear in groups

Dungeons drop gear. For many players, that's the whole point of going into an instance, whether it's a 5-man dungeon or a huge raid instance. We're locked in the ever-expanding search for better gear, and you have to kill bosses to get your sweet, sweet loot.

Most guilds use one or more various systems to make sure loot distribution is fair. Some employ a basic rule of civility; once you get gear in an a raid, it's polite to defer further drops to other guildmates. Others use complicated but effective point systems, assigning dropped gear a point value that members can bid against. No matter what the general system for rolling on gear, the foundation of the system is based on all group members' being part of a common team.

Pickup groups and Raid Finder groups possess no such commonality. The teams comprise random folks thrown together by Blizzard's behind-the-scenes group-building algorithms. Basic roles are filled, a few rules followed -- but basically anyone can get thrown together into a group.

Random groups rarely agree on loot etiquette before getting started. We all say we should agree on loot rules beforehand, but that rarely actually happens. Instead, most folks charge ahead into the dungeon operating under only a few basic assumptions about how loot will be divided. With that in mind, let's review the basic etiquette of rolling on gear in groups.

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Filed under: WoW Rookie

Addon Spotlight: Loot addons 2

Each week, WoW Insider's Mathew McCurley brings you a fresh look at reader-submitted UIs as well as Addon Spotlight, which focuses on the backbone of the WoW gameplay experience: the user interface. Everything from bags to bars, buttons to DPS meters and beyond -- your addons folder will never be the same.

There's a whole lotta loot going around these days, if you haven't noticed. New loot, loot that looks like tentacles, armor pieces, armor set pieces, transmogrification gear, upgrade gear, heroic gear, Raid Finder loot ... you name it, it's dropping. As players complete the Dragon Soul raid on every difficulty, they are learning what a nightmare loot can be in a raiding environment. Let's make loot a bit more manageable, yes?

Loot addons are a fun category of addon to talk about because they don't really clog up your screen or add much to the user interface in a notable way -- well, until you open up a chest full of loot and you get to clicking.

teksLoot

Yes, teksLoot still works. Sure, it hasn't been updated in almost a year. It's still one of my favorite addons, dammit. I'll be using teksLoot until it horribly falls apart in my hands, reduced to a small mound of dust at my feet ... clinging to the last, hopeless rolls I will make in the Raid Finder for that cool sword off of Madness of Deathwing.

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Filed under: Add-Ons, AddOn Spotlight

Patch 4.3: Raid Finder loot rules updated

Blizzard has just posted a detailed explanation of how loot rolls will work in the forthcoming Raid Finder feature in patch 4.3. With the new feature, players whose currently assigned class role, be it DPS, tank, or healer, will get a +100 added to their loot roll. Loot rolls for items with parry or dodge on them, for instance, will award the tanks in the group who roll need +100 to their roll. The system will only be looking at class role and not spec yet, but Blizzard is considering adding to the system and even potentially implementing this type of roll bonus to the Dungeon Finder as well.

We will have more information as it becomes available, but at first glance, this system seems to fit very well within what Blizzard is trying to go for in terms of Raid Finder accessibility. Tanks get to roll on tank gear, DPSers get to roll on DPS gear, and healers get to roll on healing gear. Greed rolls are still available for off-spec gear and do not function like the need rolls, so if no tank needs something, for example, the greed roll system will still work as intended. I think these will be positive changes.

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Filed under: Raiding, Cataclysm

Frozen orbs to be greed only in patch 3.3.3

Well, this is a welcome change -- now that Frozen Orbs are going to be the new crafting tokens, exchangeable for Frost Lotus and Eternal Fire, among other things, Wryxian announced that they will be greed only in the upcoming patch.


Wryxian
No, you won't be able to exchange Frozen Orbs for Emblems of Frost. Yeah it just takes one person to press Need after everyone's pressed Greed on the Frozen Orbs and you miss out. But the good news is that in patch 3.3.3 this won't be the case anymore -- the roll for Frozen Orbs will be an automatic Greed roll. Rejoice!


I wonder whether this is now some sort of flag in their database that they could use for other items. Like Books of Glyph Mastery. Nothing is more annoying than someone ninja looting jerk looting something that everyone gains equal benefit from.

Edit: Ninjas are cool. People who steal from their peers are not. Stop calling them ninjas.


Patch 3.3.3 brings about small but noteworthy changes to the World of Warcraft. From a faster CoT, to putting those old Frozen Orbs to better use, to changes to the auction house -- there's several things all WoW players need to know. WoW.com's Guide to Patch 3.3.3 will keep you up to date!

Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, News items

Disenchanting in dungeons in patch 3.3

Enchanting is probably the number one most complained about thing in patch 3.3 (or at least was until last night's nerf bat got the undead and paladins in an uproar). But hopefully this is all going to cool down a bit with what Bornaak just posted a short while ago.

His full statement is after the break. But the key line from the release:

To maintain the importance of the profession itself, the disenchanting UI option will only be available for groups that have a character with the necessary level of Enchanting to disenchant the items that are obtained.


More after the break.

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Filed under: Enchanting, Patches, News items, Enchants

WoW Rookie: Sharding etiquette

New around here? WoW Rookie points WoW's newest players to the basics of a good start in the World of Warcraft. Send us a note to suggest a WoW Rookie topic, and be sure to visit the WoW Rookie Guide for links to all our tips, tricks and how-to's.

UPDATE: Most groups use the automatic Disenchant option available in the loot roll box as of Patch 3.3.

This week, we're going to help you understand a practice that varies wildly from group to group, server to server and even expansion to expansion. "In the past few months, I've run into a situation with people who are (or who I think are) new players who happen to be 80," reader Sarabande writes to WoW Rookie. "To them, the idea of DEing BoP items for shards is completely alien (and to at least one, he just rolled greed on everything 'just to see if he could get it')."

Should your group roll for unwanted or unneeded drops when an enchanter is on hand to disenchant them? What's accepted in one situation might be scorned in another. Because there's no single way to handle the situation, it's important for new players to be aware of the options. It's also important to understand the reasons why players feel so strongly one way or another about this issue. Because there's no single "correct" method, the savvy player respects the group consensus.

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Filed under: Enchanting, Items, Tips, WoW Social Conventions, Features, WoW Rookie, Making money

The math behind random drops and rolls

Reader Sekhar P. sent us an interesting story of a strange roll seen in Naxx recently: Haunting Call dropped, and four people needed. The rolls came up, in order: 1, 2, 3, 4. The raid boggled at how unlikely that must be. Sekhar's tip set off a round of discussion among our WoW Insider staff: while it seems unlikely that four numbers would come up in sequence, the math on it isn't any more likely than any other four numbers (3, 69, 82, and 95, for example, or even 4, 8, 15, and 16). The odds come out to 24/100^4, about 0.00000024%, or about two chances out of 10 million. Of course, probability is tricky, so the chances that any one of those rolls would come up is still one out of 100 -- just like coin flips, previous die rolls won't affect the current die rolls (mistaking that is often called the gambler's fallacy) But the chances that any specific four numbers would come up are the astronomical chances above.

Of course, math aside, that still doesn't keep us from trying to predict how random rolls might work. We also recieved word from reader Emily about a site she and some friends are working on that is trying to predict just how much you'll have to run a certain instance to pick up some of the rarest items in the game, like Baron Rivendare's mount. Unfortunately, it's not a relevant indicator -- it looks like all they're doing is "simulating" runs on the item, and then tracking when it drops in their simulator. They're putting the math behind the chance into practical numbers.

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Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, Blizzard, Raiding, NPCs

Are disenchanters getting robbed by rolls?

Sardonis sent us a note the other day, with an interesting, if probably controversial, point inside: when we're in instances, Skinners take their skins, Miners take their ores, and Herbalists take their herbs (or of course they rotate around if there's more than one). At the end of the instance, we don't sit down and /roll on all of the herbs or ores that people have picked up. So why do we do it, Sardonis asks, with disenchanting shards?

Good question. My first response was that everyone needs enchants, and everyone can use those mats. But if everyone can get their friendly guild enchanter to enchant something, can't you get your Leatherworker to use skins, or your Blacksmith to use ores? Of course, you could argue that Leatherworkers can get skins from anywhere, but disenchanted blues only show up in instances. If it's an item that required five (or even 25) people to get, everyone should have a chance at it. There are herbs and ores in instances, true, but those can be found elsewhere as well -- they don't need a group to get them. And what about Rogues who unlock chests in instances -- sure, we need them to open the chests, but they need us to get them there.

You can get blues through questing and drops, though, too, so who knows who deserves what. Sardonis is at the point where he won't even say he's a disenchanter -- he'll just do a greed roll like everyone else, and if he gets the item, then he'll DE it. The tradition seems to be that we all roll when we've all helped drop some boss loot, but it's true that we'd never get the shards if it weren't for DE'ers. Maybe they do deserve to take what they make.

Filed under: Enchanting, Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, Instances, Raiding, Bosses, Enchants

PuG dungeon loot etiquette for dummies

So with the dawn of Wrath, a lot of people have been heading into 5-man dungeons, both the normal and heroic type. They may be after experience, they may be after badges, they may be after achievements, but nearly everyone is also very interested in whatever loot may drop along the way.

To add to this, not everyone is so lucky as to have a pre-made 5 man ready to go when they log on for the night. Maybe they're guildless, maybe their guild is off in Naxxramas, maybe their guild is 10 levels below them, but whatever the reason, a lot of people end up looking for the pickup groups to get their dungeon diving done.

Anyhow, you probably know what happens next. Pickup group plus loot equals drama. You'd almost think that's some sort of universal constant in WoW. Sure, we've had some great PuGs, but we've had some bad ones too, and those bad ones seem to come complete with ready-made loot drama, and it seems like we're not alone. We're hearing from a lot of people lately who've had problems with loot distribution drama.

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Filed under: Items, Analysis / Opinion, Tips, Instances

Guildwatch: P.S. Pho got banned


This is such a great idea -- Hearthstone of EU Eonar put together their own guild calendar, made out of desktop-sized photos of themselves in game. There's a lot of creativity there -- this shot, of one of them fishing in armor, is a good one, but it's interesting which settings and gear they all chose to be pictured in. Some went swimsuit, some went seasonal, and of course the Hunter had to show off his Spirit Beast. Very cool.

Lots more guild news (including some much more frustrating drama) right after the jump below -- not so much downed news this week, so if your guild has been working through the endgame lately, be sure to let us know at wowguildwatch@gmail.com, and you'll see your news here next week.

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Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Virtual selves, Guilds, Odds and ends, Instances, Humor, Guildwatch, Bosses, Wrath of the Lich King, Fan art, Battlegrounds

Ask WoW Insider: Loot rolls and seasonal boss summons

Time once again to put a question to you, dear readers, and see what you have to say about a current issue in the World of Warcraft. This time around, Rylia has a question about loot ethics with seasonal bosses -- everyone and their guildie is taking down the Headless Horseman (making the Scarlet Graveyard an actual destination, strangely), and Rylia wants to know what the policy is when an item drops:

What's your group loot policy for seasonal bosses? (a) Use the usual in-game loot roller; everyone roll Need on the rare items (mounts, small pets, etc.) (b) Whoever summons the boss for that particular attempt gets the rare item drop from that attempt. The logic behind (b) is that it prevents people who've used up their daily summons from getting more than one chance per day (and thus making their groupmates get less than one chance per day). If someone who didn't have a summon in your seasonal group wins a rare roll, do you think that's a ninja?

Rylia


Personally, I think all the summons should get settled before you enter the instance -- if you invite someone in without a summon (for example, because they're a tank, and you just need them rather than waiting for a tank with a summon), they're a part of the group after that and have as much chance as anyone else to win a roll. And yes, if an item drops that someone can use, it should be a Need roll. So if that mount drops, everyone's got a chance to win it. That's just me, though -- I can see the point about someone without a summon taking loot from people who entered with a summon.

Though I have no idea what to do if a mount and pet drops on the same run -- would the person who won one not get a chance on the second? What think you, readers, both of general loot rules on season bosses and of Rylia's summon policy?

Previously on Ask WoW Insider...

Filed under: Items, Analysis / Opinion, Events, Ask WoW Insider, Bosses, NPCs

Breakfast Topic: How does a raiding guild avoid the fate of Death and Taxes?

So it's been a day or so since we first heard that Death and Taxes was disbanding, and since then, DnT member Xi- has posted a somewhat lengthy explanation as to why. In the end, the biggest reason Xi- gave is pride. Many people, he says, just stopped thinking about the raid and the guild as a whole, and were more focused on their own advancement and their own needs, and became impatient when a boss did not fall easily. When it was time to progress, many of them, even officers, would disappear and stop supporting them.

He also does get in a few Risen style digs about how none of the BC content was half as good as Naxxramas up until Sunwell Plateau, but he did manage to sound a lot more classy than Risen did.

But the point about pride, about guild members who disappear for a while and expect to pick back up where they left off when they return, and about people who never show up for progress kills, or show up and complain if the boss doesn't fall after one or two tries, that rings true with me, as I am sure it rings true with a lot of current and former MMO raiders, whether from WoW or other games.

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Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Guilds, News items, Breakfast Topics, Instances, Raiding

But I need that for my alt!

Mingka of Dath'Remar shares her story of genuinely needing an item that dropped on a Sunken Temple run, the Robes of Insight, only to have it snatched away by greed. The hunter in the group rolled need on the item as well, with the excuse that his alt/friend/guildmate/girlfriend needs it also. The bottom line question: who is allowed to roll on an item that drops while grouped? The debate continues, but people are very united in the answer that items should always go to players who were present for the drop and need the item as a direct upgrade. What happens if nobody directly needs the item is still a question.

I personally think that loot should be discussed if a clear upgrade situation is not present. Many people have alts, and would like to outfit those characters. But All of us have mains that require funding and gear/enchant/gem upgrades to progress further.

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Filed under: Items, Analysis / Opinion

Unwanted BoE Epics on the black market

Here is, as she says, an interesting "moral quandary" from jumpingjessflash. She was making her way through Maraudon (one of my favorite instances) with a few guildies, and the BoE epic Icemail Jerkin dropped. At first, she thought it was an upgrade for her Hunter, so rolled Need and took it she asked for Need, but then eventually won it with Greed (see note below). But on second thought, she didn't like only +5 Agility-- turns out it wasn't the Jerkin for her.

So she's left with a choice: wear it anyway, or auction it and risk suffering the wrath of her guildies.

I've been in (almost*) the same position, but (especially with guildies), if I'm not sure whether I'll use something or not, I'll usually let everyone else in the group know that it's iffy for me-- usually they'll let me take it anyway, to keep as a sidegrade or a piece of a different set. If I want to be really nice, I'll sometimes let them reroll on it if I decide I don't want it, and then send it away to the winner. Another option is to sell it, and then split the gold.

Of course, you could also go the other way and send it to an unguilded alt to sell it anonymously. That way, you get the cash and no one is the wiser. Like I said, usually I don't care, but I'll admit that sometimes I'm a stickler-- if someone happens to roll Need on a BoE that I think is a questionable call, I have in the past asked them to put it on so I can see them wearing it via /inspect (I haven't ever done that to guildies, but in a PUG everything is fair game as far as I'm concerned).

Still, I don't have a problem with selling a piece picked up accidentally, if someone thought it was a good piece and then had second thoughts. If you did that and then put it on the AH, no one would accuse you of being a ninja-- would they?

*Update: As a few people have pointed out (including the livejournal poster), it seems like I did misunderstand her original post. She wasn't ninja-ing at all-- she asked for Need, but eventually won it rolling greed. Her concern was that someone may have passed because she asked for Need, not because she rolled Need and then decided she didn't need it. Because she rolled greed and won it, the piece was hers.

Anyway, I still think the issue of second guessing something that you roll Need on is an interesting one. That's not what the original post was talking about, but it's what I am talking about in this story, and I think it's worth a discussion.

Filed under: Items, Analysis / Opinion, Tips, Economy, Instances

On Needing and Greeding

Some of you may remember, as I do, a time when there was no Greed button, only a dice and pass options on looting. Either you wanted the item, or you didn't. Or, it was BoP loot, in which case, as I remember, everyone was supposed to pass, and then you all decided what to do-- though it was so long ago, I can't quite remember why that was...

At any rate, that time is over, and now we have the option to Need or Greed roll on loot that shows up, so it's pretty clear what to do when loot drops-- if you need it, roll Need, and compete with other Needers. If you just want, roll Greed or pass, and everybody's happy.

Except, as with everything, there are exceptions. Nesp from Lightning Blade brings up one of the most common-- he's a jewelcrafter, and he's wondering if he should roll Need or Greed on gems-- sometimes, he's the only one in the party that can cut them, but then again, anyone can use them after they're cut. Likewise, I think there's a little confusion about things like Fel Armaments and Arcane Tomes as well-- yes, people of the opposite faction from Aldor or Scryer shouldn't roll on rewards they don't need, but should the right factioned people all roll Need or Greed? Likewise, everyone needed things like Corrupter's Scourgestones-- should everyone in that case roll Need, or just roll Greed?

As Blizzard says (sensibly) in the thread, the best policy is to actually decide on a policy within the party before you have to-- nothing worse than losing an item to someone who can't use it, or taking an item accidentally that you don't really need. My plan is probably the default most players use: if you need it (as in, you can wear it or turn it in ASAP), roll need. If you don't (or you're going to sell it at the AH or DE or vendor it away), roll greed, and live with the consequences (there's always more loot to gain). But whatever works for you is what works best.

Filed under: Items, Tips, Instances, Jewelcrafting

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