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Posts with tag need

The etiquette of rolling on gear in groups

Dungeons drop gear. For many players, that's the whole point of going into an instance, whether it's a 5-man dungeon or a huge raid instance. We're locked in the ever-expanding search for better gear, and you have to kill bosses to get your sweet, sweet loot.

Most guilds use one or more various systems to make sure loot distribution is fair. Some employ a basic rule of civility; once you get gear in an a raid, it's polite to defer further drops to other guildmates. Others use complicated but effective point systems, assigning dropped gear a point value that members can bid against. No matter what the general system for rolling on gear, the foundation of the system is based on all group members' being part of a common team.

Pickup groups and Raid Finder groups possess no such commonality. The teams comprise random folks thrown together by Blizzard's behind-the-scenes group-building algorithms. Basic roles are filled, a few rules followed -- but basically anyone can get thrown together into a group.

Random groups rarely agree on loot etiquette before getting started. We all say we should agree on loot rules beforehand, but that rarely actually happens. Instead, most folks charge ahead into the dungeon operating under only a few basic assumptions about how loot will be divided. With that in mind, let's review the basic etiquette of rolling on gear in groups.

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Filed under: WoW Rookie

Addon Spotlight: Loot addons 2

Each week, WoW Insider's Mathew McCurley brings you a fresh look at reader-submitted UIs as well as Addon Spotlight, which focuses on the backbone of the WoW gameplay experience: the user interface. Everything from bags to bars, buttons to DPS meters and beyond -- your addons folder will never be the same.

There's a whole lotta loot going around these days, if you haven't noticed. New loot, loot that looks like tentacles, armor pieces, armor set pieces, transmogrification gear, upgrade gear, heroic gear, Raid Finder loot ... you name it, it's dropping. As players complete the Dragon Soul raid on every difficulty, they are learning what a nightmare loot can be in a raiding environment. Let's make loot a bit more manageable, yes?

Loot addons are a fun category of addon to talk about because they don't really clog up your screen or add much to the user interface in a notable way -- well, until you open up a chest full of loot and you get to clicking.

teksLoot

Yes, teksLoot still works. Sure, it hasn't been updated in almost a year. It's still one of my favorite addons, dammit. I'll be using teksLoot until it horribly falls apart in my hands, reduced to a small mound of dust at my feet ... clinging to the last, hopeless rolls I will make in the Raid Finder for that cool sword off of Madness of Deathwing.

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Filed under: Add-Ons, AddOn Spotlight

Patch 4.3: Raid Finder loot rules updated

Blizzard has just posted a detailed explanation of how loot rolls will work in the forthcoming Raid Finder feature in patch 4.3. With the new feature, players whose currently assigned class role, be it DPS, tank, or healer, will get a +100 added to their loot roll. Loot rolls for items with parry or dodge on them, for instance, will award the tanks in the group who roll need +100 to their roll. The system will only be looking at class role and not spec yet, but Blizzard is considering adding to the system and even potentially implementing this type of roll bonus to the Dungeon Finder as well.

We will have more information as it becomes available, but at first glance, this system seems to fit very well within what Blizzard is trying to go for in terms of Raid Finder accessibility. Tanks get to roll on tank gear, DPSers get to roll on DPS gear, and healers get to roll on healing gear. Greed rolls are still available for off-spec gear and do not function like the need rolls, so if no tank needs something, for example, the greed roll system will still work as intended. I think these will be positive changes.

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Filed under: Raiding, Cataclysm

Frozen orbs to be greed only in patch 3.3.3

Well, this is a welcome change -- now that Frozen Orbs are going to be the new crafting tokens, exchangeable for Frost Lotus and Eternal Fire, among other things, Wryxian announced that they will be greed only in the upcoming patch.


Wryxian
No, you won't be able to exchange Frozen Orbs for Emblems of Frost. Yeah it just takes one person to press Need after everyone's pressed Greed on the Frozen Orbs and you miss out. But the good news is that in patch 3.3.3 this won't be the case anymore -- the roll for Frozen Orbs will be an automatic Greed roll. Rejoice!


I wonder whether this is now some sort of flag in their database that they could use for other items. Like Books of Glyph Mastery. Nothing is more annoying than someone ninja looting jerk looting something that everyone gains equal benefit from.

Edit: Ninjas are cool. People who steal from their peers are not. Stop calling them ninjas.


Patch 3.3.3 brings about small but noteworthy changes to the World of Warcraft. From a faster CoT, to putting those old Frozen Orbs to better use, to changes to the auction house -- there's several things all WoW players need to know. WoW.com's Guide to Patch 3.3.3 will keep you up to date!

Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Blizzard, News items

Disenchanting in dungeons in patch 3.3

Enchanting is probably the number one most complained about thing in patch 3.3 (or at least was until last night's nerf bat got the undead and paladins in an uproar). But hopefully this is all going to cool down a bit with what Bornaak just posted a short while ago.

His full statement is after the break. But the key line from the release:

To maintain the importance of the profession itself, the disenchanting UI option will only be available for groups that have a character with the necessary level of Enchanting to disenchant the items that are obtained.


More after the break.

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Filed under: Enchanting, Patches, News items, Enchants

WoW Rookie: Sharding etiquette

New around here? WoW Rookie points WoW's newest players to the basics of a good start in the World of Warcraft. Send us a note to suggest a WoW Rookie topic, and be sure to visit the WoW Rookie Guide for links to all our tips, tricks and how-to's.

UPDATE: Most groups use the automatic Disenchant option available in the loot roll box as of Patch 3.3.

This week, we're going to help you understand a practice that varies wildly from group to group, server to server and even expansion to expansion. "In the past few months, I've run into a situation with people who are (or who I think are) new players who happen to be 80," reader Sarabande writes to WoW Rookie. "To them, the idea of DEing BoP items for shards is completely alien (and to at least one, he just rolled greed on everything 'just to see if he could get it')."

Should your group roll for unwanted or unneeded drops when an enchanter is on hand to disenchant them? What's accepted in one situation might be scorned in another. Because there's no single way to handle the situation, it's important for new players to be aware of the options. It's also important to understand the reasons why players feel so strongly one way or another about this issue. Because there's no single "correct" method, the savvy player respects the group consensus.

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Filed under: Enchanting, Items, Tips, WoW Social Conventions, Features, WoW Rookie, Making money

The math behind random drops and rolls

Reader Sekhar P. sent us an interesting story of a strange roll seen in Naxx recently: Haunting Call dropped, and four people needed. The rolls came up, in order: 1, 2, 3, 4. The raid boggled at how unlikely that must be. Sekhar's tip set off a round of discussion among our WoW Insider staff: while it seems unlikely that four numbers would come up in sequence, the math on it isn't any more likely than any other four numbers (3, 69, 82, and 95, for example, or even 4, 8, 15, and 16). The odds come out to 24/100^4, about 0.00000024%, or about two chances out of 10 million. Of course, probability is tricky, so the chances that any one of those rolls would come up is still one out of 100 -- just like coin flips, previous die rolls won't affect the current die rolls (mistaking that is often called the gambler's fallacy) But the chances that any specific four numbers would come up are the astronomical chances above.

Of course, math aside, that still doesn't keep us from trying to predict how random rolls might work. We also recieved word from reader Emily about a site she and some friends are working on that is trying to predict just how much you'll have to run a certain instance to pick up some of the rarest items in the game, like Baron Rivendare's mount. Unfortunately, it's not a relevant indicator -- it looks like all they're doing is "simulating" runs on the item, and then tracking when it drops in their simulator. They're putting the math behind the chance into practical numbers.

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Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, Blizzard, Raiding, NPCs

Are disenchanters getting robbed by rolls?

Sardonis sent us a note the other day, with an interesting, if probably controversial, point inside: when we're in instances, Skinners take their skins, Miners take their ores, and Herbalists take their herbs (or of course they rotate around if there's more than one). At the end of the instance, we don't sit down and /roll on all of the herbs or ores that people have picked up. So why do we do it, Sardonis asks, with disenchanting shards?

Good question. My first response was that everyone needs enchants, and everyone can use those mats. But if everyone can get their friendly guild enchanter to enchant something, can't you get your Leatherworker to use skins, or your Blacksmith to use ores? Of course, you could argue that Leatherworkers can get skins from anywhere, but disenchanted blues only show up in instances. If it's an item that required five (or even 25) people to get, everyone should have a chance at it. There are herbs and ores in instances, true, but those can be found elsewhere as well -- they don't need a group to get them. And what about Rogues who unlock chests in instances -- sure, we need them to open the chests, but they need us to get them there.

You can get blues through questing and drops, though, too, so who knows who deserves what. Sardonis is at the point where he won't even say he's a disenchanter -- he'll just do a greed roll like everyone else, and if he gets the item, then he'll DE it. The tradition seems to be that we all roll when we've all helped drop some boss loot, but it's true that we'd never get the shards if it weren't for DE'ers. Maybe they do deserve to take what they make.

Filed under: Enchanting, Analysis / Opinion, Odds and ends, Instances, Raiding, Bosses, Enchants

PuG dungeon loot etiquette for dummies

So with the dawn of Wrath, a lot of people have been heading into 5-man dungeons, both the normal and heroic type. They may be after experience, they may be after badges, they may be after achievements, but nearly everyone is also very interested in whatever loot may drop along the way.

To add to this, not everyone is so lucky as to have a pre-made 5 man ready to go when they log on for the night. Maybe they're guildless, maybe their guild is off in Naxxramas, maybe their guild is 10 levels below them, but whatever the reason, a lot of people end up looking for the pickup groups to get their dungeon diving done.

Anyhow, you probably know what happens next. Pickup group plus loot equals drama. You'd almost think that's some sort of universal constant in WoW. Sure, we've had some great PuGs, but we've had some bad ones too, and those bad ones seem to come complete with ready-made loot drama, and it seems like we're not alone. We're hearing from a lot of people lately who've had problems with loot distribution drama.

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Filed under: Items, Analysis / Opinion, Tips, Instances

Guildwatch: P.S. Pho got banned


This is such a great idea -- Hearthstone of EU Eonar put together their own guild calendar, made out of desktop-sized photos of themselves in game. There's a lot of creativity there -- this shot, of one of them fishing in armor, is a good one, but it's interesting which settings and gear they all chose to be pictured in. Some went swimsuit, some went seasonal, and of course the Hunter had to show off his Spirit Beast. Very cool.

Lots more guild news (including some much more frustrating drama) right after the jump below -- not so much downed news this week, so if your guild has been working through the endgame lately, be sure to let us know at wowguildwatch@gmail.com, and you'll see your news here next week.

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Filed under: Analysis / Opinion, Virtual selves, Guilds, Odds and ends, Instances, Humor, Guildwatch, Bosses, Wrath of the Lich King, Fan art, Battlegrounds

Ask WoW Insider: Loot rolls and seasonal boss summons

Time once again to put a question to you, dear readers, and see what you have to say about a current issue in the World of Warcraft. This time around, Rylia has a question about loot ethics with seasonal bosses -- everyone and their guildie is taking down the Headless Horseman (making the Scarlet Graveyard an actual destination, strangely), and Rylia wants to know what the policy is when an item drops:

What's your group loot policy for seasonal bosses? (a) Use the usual in-game loot roller; everyone roll Need on the rare items (mounts, small pets, etc.) (b) Whoever summons the boss for that particular attempt gets the rare item drop from that attempt. The logic behind (b) is that it prevents people who've used up their daily summons from getting more than one chance per day (and thus making their groupmates get less than one chance per day). If someone who didn't have a summon in your seasonal group wins a rare roll, do you think that's a ninja?

Rylia


Personally, I think all the summons should get settled before you enter the instance -- if you invite someone in without a summon (for example, because they're a tank, and you just need them rather than waiting for a tank with a summon), they're a part of the group after that and have as much chance as anyone else to win a roll. And yes, if an item drops that someone can use, it should be a Need roll. So if that mount drops, everyone's got a chance to win it. That's just me, though -- I can see the point about someone without a summon taking loot from people who entered with a summon.

Though I have no idea what to do if a mount and pet drops on the same run -- would the person who won one not get a chance on the second? What think you, readers, both of general loot rules on season bosses and of Rylia's summon policy?

Previously on Ask WoW Insider...

Filed under: Items, Analysis / Opinion, Events, Ask WoW Insider, Bosses, NPCs

Forum post of the day: I need that for my PvP set

I'm sure at some point in time we've all seen epic looting nightmares. More than once I've been hoping for a drop in an instance only to have another party member beat me on a need roll. Usually, though it's something they actually do need, at least as much as I do. Sometimes ninja looting is even an accident, but other times it is not.

Avirisa of Mannoroth is a might miffed that she was outrolled for a Commendation of Kael'Thas ... to a Hunter... for PvP. As a tank, she said he was running the instance to acquire that drop. Most responded that this behavior is part of what gives Hunters a bad name in the game (Huntard). Some blamed the original poster for inviting not only a Hunter, but a Night Elf Hunter to the group.

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Filed under: Hunter, Warrior, Items, Instances, Forums, Forum Post of the Day

Breakfast Topic: Addons requests and recommendations

Lileah on Livejournal was looking for some help with an addon the other day, and her request gave me an idea. For this morning's Breakfast Topic, we're going all out with the addon requests. If you've got a need for an addon (like custom timers, an addon for keeping track of food, or any other weird needs you might have), ask in the comments below, and if you're an addon expert, show off your expertise by letting the requester know if there's an addon that will fill their needs.

And if there's isn't an addon that can do what they're asking, maybe this comments section will be the impetus for someone out there to create one of their own. Think we can find a need out there for an addon that doesn't yet exist? Of course, there are some things that addons can't do (choose targets or spells for you is a big one), but otherwise, consider this thread your clearinghouse for addon service requests.

If you can't get an answer here, feel free to tip us, too -- we at WoW Insider always love finding out and writing about new addons. Whether you need help finding an addon that does what you want or you know of a great addon that could use some coverage, let us know and we'll be thrilled to take a look at it.

Filed under: Odds and ends, Add-Ons, Breakfast Topics

Constructive criticism with the forums and the Armory

Some European players recently posted topics to their forums which focused on giving constructive criticism to whoever was above them in the thread. As the draenei author of the hunters' "what does the hunter above you need?" post put it:
This isn't another "Rate my armory" thread. But rather a thread to give constructive criticism and directions for the above hunter. Like when you see a hunter in peril running around with a 2H Sword of the Bandit you could point him towards the Sonic Spear in Shadow Labyrinth. Or when a confused survivalist spends 2 of his precious talent points in Imp. Feign Death you could tell him to spend them on something more useful like Clever Traps and so on.

May the Naaru bless you all.

Not only is the idea tremendously useful, there's something about the humility and camaraderie in the attitude of this sort of post that gives me a pleasant surprise. Usually the forums (and anonymous Internet communication in general) have of all sorts of nastiness, and it's refreshing to see people using everything that the forums and the armory provide in such a cooperative way.

I found "what does the player above you need?" posts for Hunters, Warlocks, Rogues, and Warriors. If you have found similar forum posts for other classes, or posts with remarkable constructive criticism of another sort, please mention them in the comments below.

Filed under: Hunter, Rogue, Warlock, Warrior, Virtual selves

But I need that for my alt!

Mingka of Dath'Remar shares her story of genuinely needing an item that dropped on a Sunken Temple run, the Robes of Insight, only to have it snatched away by greed. The hunter in the group rolled need on the item as well, with the excuse that his alt/friend/guildmate/girlfriend needs it also. The bottom line question: who is allowed to roll on an item that drops while grouped? The debate continues, but people are very united in the answer that items should always go to players who were present for the drop and need the item as a direct upgrade. What happens if nobody directly needs the item is still a question.

I personally think that loot should be discussed if a clear upgrade situation is not present. Many people have alts, and would like to outfit those characters. But All of us have mains that require funding and gear/enchant/gem upgrades to progress further.

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Filed under: Items, Analysis / Opinion

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