Posts with tag role-forums

The class role forums have closed their doors. Takralus posted on them yesterday that they're doing so to concentrate the discussion into existing forums (which I'm taking to mean the class forums). The role forums are currently in read-only mode, and will remain that way until April 8, when they are removed entirely.

The role forums were launched in October 2008 with the original intent of replacing the class forums. Blizzard backtracked on that quickly after the player base revolted, and they left everything in place as it is today. Ghostcrawler was a big poster on the role forums and used them extensively before he made his switch to Twitter. However, as we all know, the forums were not always a happy place.

Takralus' full announcement after the break.

Update 3:22 p.m.: Bashiok let us know that this only applies to the EU. They have no intention of closing the US class role forums at this time.

This post is going to be very meta in some regards, and it's going to touch on a few things that deal with the WoW community's very existence. We've written this article in hopes that it might help calm the waters, or at least bring some will on the part of the multitudes of individuals not to jump on the wrong bandwagon.

If you've been paying attention to the role forums and the "Ghostcrawler drama" this past week, you know what I'm talking about. If not, we'll begin with a brief rundown.

The Inherency of the Status Quo

WoW is designed and run by a team of people, with a handful of "leads" in position to direct the design of the game. These people, such as Ghostcrawler, are at the top of the ladder in terms of game development. They are the conglomerate of the entire design and development teams underneath them.

Ghostcrawler, and in the past a few people like him, post on the role forums daily in an effort to establish a dialogue with the community over some, but not all, game design principals.

The community, as expected, is more than happy to talk with Ghostcrawler and the rest of Blizzard.

The Harm of the Vocal Minority

We reported this weekend on Ghostcrawler's self-imposed break from the forums. The response by the majority of the so-called mature fans was quite negative. Many were furious, and rightfully so in my opinion. It appeared that a key source of information for the community was taking leave. Right on the cusp of the Cataclysm alpha/beta, this would have been a terrible time for that to occur. We'd likely be in the dark about changes until they were discovered on the beta/PTR, and even then there would be little to no definitive philosophical discussion about the reasons behind the new content.

Ghostcrawler was apparently touched by the fan support, which you can see both in our post and the forum thread in the role forums. He's come back out and said that he will only be responding to topics he wants, rather than allowing clamoring forum-goers to push him into responding (or not responding).

This has been evident lately in the Shadow Priest QQ going on. When he doesn't respond to what is clearly inappropriate discourse, people get really angry. They think Blizzard is ignoring them, which isn't the case. The role forums are about discussion between players with Ghostcrawler occasionally appearing to offer some insight. Designers read everything on those forums, blue tagged or not.

His exact words, after the break.

Ghostcrawler, aka Greg Street, the Lead Systems designer, posted today that he is going to "chill it out a little" from the role forums. These forums are the primary conduit for Blizzard to communicate with the fanbase about changes to WoW and the philosophy behind those changes. For the past year and a half, Ghostcrawler has been the daily presence in the forums, offering a unique and exceptionally detailed look at the inner workings of the design process that goes into WoW.

One of the primary complaints Ghostcrawler has about the forums is how his words are picked apart by folks, often times with such a fine scalpel that things which he says are taken out of context and diluted from their original meanings. We've noticed this ourselves, in that when we post on something he says commenters will often look past the context of the post (or article we've written) and dive right into a uniquely feisty brand of QQ.

As of late the forums have reached a new level of annoyance, with more and more posts being about Ghostcrawler's job performance and him personally, instead of being about the game mechanics. Even post about game mechanics and design issues find a way to devolve into people crying about their class or what Ghostcrawler has or has not done. Some people actually believe that Ghostcrawler promised them a pony, and those people have became significantly more and more vocal.

Here's the tldr version of the article for folks that are so inclined:


One of the most consistent and annoying things about the forums lately are people begging for blue responses. It's reached a near epidemic level with the greater visibility of Ghostcrawler and sites like WoW Insider, MMO-Champion, and World of Raids reporting on everything he says.

Most of this blue begging, as I've come to call it, used to occur in the General Forums; bugging for a Neth or Drysc response to everything. The begging then migrated over to the Customer Service Forums, asking for someone like Belfaire to respond (I admit I'm guilty of doing that once or twice, but hey, it worked out in the end). Now the begging is centered around the Role Forums, pleading for a Ghostcrawler response like the world is about to end if the blue beggar doesn't get one.

When Blizzard first introduced the idea of the role forums, players were generally unenthusiastic because the original plan was to dissolve the cherished class forums as well. People warmed up to the idea once Blizzard decided to keep the class forums intact while still warning that they would probably devote a lot more developer attention to the role forums. With the addition of a new class, that made sense; being able to give more attention to just 3 forums is a lot more efficient than trying to spread individual replies around 10.

I genuinely like the Tanking forums. Many of the people posting are sincerely helpful, and take the time to answer questions posed by people new to the job and nervous about their performance. There have also been a number of interesting threads sparked by changes to general tanking practices, what tanks hate most, the ongoing debate concerning Blessing of Sanctuary and Druid AoE threat, Warrior viability on a 3D Sartharion, and concerns over Death Knight tanking weapons. The forum is usually a pleasure to read even if a few threads are kind of off-base, and I think the back-and-forth between four different tanking classes serves to take the edge off concerns that players might otherwise have been convinced were unique to their class (which, let's be honest, is probably one of the effects Blizzard wanted).

I don't spend as much time on the Damage Dealing and Healing forums because my main spends most of her time tanking, and things are a little more volatile over there (mostly because of current PvP concerns). Were the role forums ultimately a good idea? Are they -- shall we say -- working as intended?

Greg Street, aka Ghostcrawler, is the lead systems designer at Blizzard for World of Warcraft. It's his job to make sure all the numbers work right, that the talents are spiffy, and all that "other" stuff. He became a presence during the Wrath of the Lich King beta, posting daily about updates to the game and interacting with players in a way that hasn't been seen before.

The daily activity by Ghostcrawler has lead to him become a staple of sites such as WoW Insider and MMO-Champion. Every day you can see at least one or two items from him. We here at WoW Insider are particularly watchful of what he says, since his posts usually contain detailed information about why something was done and what might be done in the future. That's great content that we like to talk a lot about.

However despite the volumes Ghostcrawler publishes each day, some people feel that his welcome has ran out – that this experiment of him providing community interaction has failed. Some feel that his penchant for forum interaction is time wasted, that he's done nothing more than incite riots with certain classes, and that his demeanor is less than appealing. There was a forum post today about this very topic, but that in itself is nothing new as lots of people have been QQing over Ghostcrawler for a while.

Don't let all the crying fool you however – he has some major supporters throughout the community.

1st Rule: You do not talk about the role forums.
2nd Rule: You do not talk about the role forums.
3rd Rule: If this is your first post on the role forums, you have to fight.

There are eight rules to Fight Club, and there are eight rules to the new role forums. Coincidence? Highly likely. Ghostcrawler has referenced the movie before, and for some reason I could see him kicking the crap out of himself screaming "Don't nerf me, bro!"

But nonetheless, Ghostcrawler has outlined eight simple and easy to follow rules for these new discussion forums. We'll take a look at them all after the break, but the highlight of the rules is rule #4 which in part says, "Sometimes Blizzard employees, such as me, respond to threads." That along with the preamble remark that "...class designers, such as myself, visit [the class forums] less often than the role forums," makes these new forums very interesting.

It looks like the discussion and back and forth we've come to see in the beta will continue on the new role forums. This can only lead to good things.

The full rules after the break for all you special and unique snowflakes.

Want to hear something frightening? There will be no more class forums. Nethaera announced it a bit earlier on the official forums, and I'm still not sure what to think. They're breaking down the class forums and replacing them with role forums: Tanking, Healing, and Damage Dealing. For those players that have been afraid they're homogenizing classes a little too much, this really isn't helping.

Personally, I think this is a horrible move. The official class forums were bad enough, and now they've thrust all of the classes together. Have you seen those really cruel, gross videos where they put two scary looking bugs together in a glass cage and let them kill each other, and they'll do it every single time just because it's in their nature to defend themselves? This is the WoW forum equivalent of it. This is going to be a disaster. The walls are going to be painted with blood.